Mitsui and Rakuten Vanguard wrappers make no sense.

TokyoWart
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Re: Mitsui and Rakuten Vanguard wrappers make no sense.

Post by TokyoWart »

Can anybody tell me if currency had anything to do with the differences? Holding in the Japanese wrapper means you're holding in yen, and fluctuations there would easily eat up profits (unless the fund is hedged), no? Or an I missing something?
In general it's expensive to hedge so funds will prefer not to and I would wager that none of these funds have. If the fund only held US indexes, so the only relevant exchange rate was yen vs dollar, your question would be easy to answer and we would look at average yearly exchange rates (https://www.irs.gov/individuals/interna ... ange-rates):

2018 110.4 yen/dollar
2017 116.7 yen/dollar
2016 113.1 yen/dollar
2015 125.9 yen/dollar
2014 110.1 yen/dollar

Which means the 5 year comparison is apples-to-apples in terms of exchange rates while 3, 2 or 1 year comparisons make the Japanese returns look a little better than they really are (because you've been receiving dollar dividends at as high as 125 yen/dollar even though the current rate is closer to 110 yen/dollar). However, the posts above indicate the fund is not a US index but an international index so there is no simple comparison based on one currency. To a first approximation this only makes these funds look worse to my mind.
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mule96
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Re: Mitsui and Rakuten Vanguard wrappers make no sense.

Post by mule96 »

mighty58 wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 10:52 am Can anybody tell me if currency had anything to do with the differences? Holding in the Japanese wrapper means you're holding in yen, and fluctuations there would easily eat up profits (unless the fund is hedged), no? Or an I missing something?
I think the second one doesn't hedge against the JPY, and that is why the performance is quite similar. The JPY also didn't move much since 2018. So I am not a 100% sure why you think it performed worse. The first one is a little bit more complicated (and has higher costs in total - but it is a hard to understand fund and performance depends on various factors). Which exact period are you comparing?
jcc
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Re: Mitsui and Rakuten Vanguard wrappers make no sense.

Post by jcc »

mighty58 wrote: Tue May 07, 2019 10:52 am Can anybody tell me if currency had anything to do with the differences? Holding in the Japanese wrapper means you're holding in yen, and fluctuations there would easily eat up profits (unless the fund is hedged), no? Or an I missing something?
The japanese wrapper doesn't really do much except make it easy to buy here and the way the whole fund is set up is not very tax efficient(and the high costs on both don't help).

As mentioned above, adding a currency hedge into the fund will just drive down performance. You're reducing risk, but you're also reducing return. This is something to remember: taking risks is rewarded by higher average returns. There are plenty of books on this and retirejapan has a good reading list somewhere, have a look at that.

Vanguard is a great place to invest... if you're an american in america. Most of the investing advice online in english is by Americans in America, same for books. Remember this, because as amazing as Vanguards funds are for americans, you can't really get their full effect here. Instead just follow in their spirit and pick the funds that are doing the same thing at the minimum possible costs(that's including taxes of course)

When you get a japanese investment bank wrapping their fund, that makes it not very tax efficient, and then to add insult to injury, they tag on extra costs for the convenience of providing the service.

I've pretty much always had the same advice, which is why I don't post much anymore(sounds like a broken tape recorder): buy a low cost japanese fund that is not structured as a wrapper on a foreign ETF. eMaxis slim is a great example of this, lately other places have been competing too.

There are only a couple of exceptions:

1) If you're buying only US stock(e.g. an S&P 500 index) you can(and probably should) buy a US ETF with $. The taxation is the same as if you bought a japanese fund(you get taxed in the US and in Japan), and the US ETFs generally have lower costs(but make sure you're not losing your savings on exchange fees). TBH the difference is small enough that personally I have not bothered.

2) If your choices are limited by what is available(e.g. iDeco or tsumitate nisa). The tax benefits are worth it, but still try to minimize costs. You may also consider options like buying the jp part of your allocation there(e.g. rakuten iDeco offers tawara no-load nikkei 225 which is a pretty solid fund). There is a LOT of garbage(basically anything with costs over .3%) on the lists so take care. Honestly it's disappointing to see how exploitative some of the funds they include in their lists are. Target year funds with near 1% costs. Eww
mighty58
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Re: Mitsui and Rakuten Vanguard wrappers make no sense.

Post by mighty58 »

Thanks JCC and others for taking the time to reply. Much appreciated.

I think I was also getting confused a bit between Japanese funds that are wrappers vs. Japanese funds that are not wrappers but which invest in the target equivalent of a Vanguard out any other index fund. Obviously the latter is preferable to keeps costs down.
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