When to take your Japanese pension?

When do you plan to take your pension (nenkin)?

Early 60-64 (and get less)
3
13%
Standard 65
14
61%
Late 66-75 (get more)
6
26%
 
Total votes: 23

captainspoke
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by captainspoke »

...
I keep digging around, and I think there is an article in the telegraph, that says something similar,but it is behind a payment wall

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pen ... 20the%20UK.
On a mac (safari) when it loads go immediately to Reader (shift+command+R)

Here's the text part, not going to bother adding the graphics to this:




Can I unfreeze my state pension when I visit the UK from a country where payments don't rise every year?
Around 500,000 elderly expats live in countries where their state pension is frozen at whatever amount it was set at when they moved abroad.

Some people who retired overseas when the full basic rate was £67.50 a week in 2000 still get that, rather than the £141.85 a week now received by others who retired that year.

But expats who come back to the UK, whether for a short visit or for good, get their state pension uprated back to the full amount again if they apply to the Department for Work and Pensions.

Frozen state pension: How do you unfreeze payments on visits to the UK?
Frozen state pension: How do you unfreeze payments on visits to the UK?
On a short stay, it will only be hiked for the duration of a trip, but the gulf between the frozen and the standard amounts can be so huge that it is worth it even then.

We recently covered the case of a 100-year-old woman who served as a nurse in World War II, and receives a £46-a-week state pension which hasn't increased since she went to live near her children in Australia in the early 1990s.

Very elderly people might not often travel to the UK, or the other 'unfrozen' countries where you can also get your payments increased temporarily, due to frailty or ill health.

However, if you do the process of getting your payments increased is explained below.

Whether an expat's pension is frozen or not depends entirely on where you move to, because the Government has struck individual deals with some countries but left around 150 others out in the cold.

This has created an historical anomaly, which originated some 70 years ago, where people retiring to Canada, Australia, India, Africa and many parts of the Caribbean lose out on state pension increases, while those living in EU countries, the US, Jamaica, Israel and the Philippines get their full whack.

MPs and campaigners have criticised the Government over the policy, which they have variously called illogical, unfair and morally wrong.

In its most recent statement on this, the Government said: 'We understand that people move abroad for many reasons and that this can impact on their finances. There is information on Gov.uk about what the effect of going abroad will be on entitlement to the UK state pension.

'The Government's policy on the uprating of the UK state pension for recipients living overseas is a longstanding one of more than 70 years and we continue to uprate state pensions overseas where there is a legal requirement to do so.'

We explain more here, and see below for the full list of frozen countries.

John Duffy is chair of the International Consortium of British Pensioners which runs the End Frozen Pensions campaign. He says:

Quite astonishingly, a 'frozen' state pensioner will find their UK state pension 'thawed' if they return to the UK, even if only for a short period.

Indeed, the pension is unfrozen during any visit to a list of 'unfrozen' countries, not just the UK.

This means that somebody could receive – for example - £46 in one week living in a 'frozen' country, visit the UK, where their weekly pension will be tripled, only for this to revert to the frozen rate when back in their country of residence.

This arbitrary system highlights the sheer inequity of frozen pensions: if you have paid in the same dues and contributions, why should it matter where you happen to be?

Is there a minimum stay in the UK required?

There is no minimum stay in the UK required to receive the full uprated state pension.

A pensioner only has to inform the DWP of their arrival and departure dates.

What are the best contact details to sort this out with the DWP?

There is very little information on how to arrange this on the DWP website – this is rather typical of all communications provided to support pensioners overseas and mirrors the distinct lack of communication informing a pensioner that their state pension might be frozen should they move abroad.

A pensioner wishing to arrange a return to the UK should inform the International Pension Centre by phoning the call line at +44 191 218 7777. (See the box below.)

What proof will be required of being in the UK and the length of time spent there?

A 'frozen' pensioner visiting the UK will need to provide their full name and home telephone number, the date they are arriving and leaving the UK, their nationality, and an address and telephone number of where they will be staying during their visit.

They will then be asked to provide their UK National Insurance number and travel details.

This can be arranged prior to arrival in the UK but no earlier than 28 days beforehand.

What else should you know?

If a 'frozen' pensioner visits the UK or one or more of the countries where the rate of pension is increased each year in line with the practice in the UK (the 'uprated countries'), they could also have their pension increased during their time there.

This concession excludes the US and Bermuda.

The uprated countries where the pension will be increased are: Austria, Barbados, Belgium, Bosnia Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Eire (Republic of Ireland), Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Guernsey, Hungary, Iceland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Jersey, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Mauritius, Montenegro, The Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, The Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Turkey and, of course, the United Kingdom.

The period of increase also includes any time spent on a British registered ship.
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by Bubblegun »

Bubblegun wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:30 am
RetireJapan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:28 am
Bubblegun wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 2:46 am it will revert back to level we originally had, when it was initially frozen
I've never heard that. Do you have a source?
Yes, I read it here. So from my interpretationi it will be unfrozen while you are in the UK, or treated countries, but if you repatriate back to a NON treaty country I.E Japan it was frozen. On your return it will revert back to the original amount.
On a short stay, IT WILL ONLY BE HIKED FOR THE DURATTION OF A TRIP, but the gulf between the frozen and the standard amounts can be so huge that it is worth it even then.

Very elderly people might not often travel to the UK, or the other 'unfrozen' countries where you can also get your payments increased temporarily

I keep digging around, and I think there is an article in the telegraph, that says something similar,but it is behind a payment wall

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pen ... 20the%20UK.
This one i have managed to unblock with a paywall breaker.
This gives us some interesting information.
To honest i thought i could go back to the UK for a few months, get the uplift, then the uplift would remain the new level but the telegraph has this.
If you visited or came to the UK temporarily, you would get £221.20 rate until you left, when it would revert to the rate you were getting when you initially left – £168.60.
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Bubblegun
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by Bubblegun »

Here is the Telegraph article. I have increased the size in the area I think is important to us.(if you don't want to read it all). I think if my interpretation is correct, then it means we either need to lobby out MPs, for an uplift, and plan even further ahead.
The state pension is a crucial part of many people’s income in retirement. Currently claimed by around 12.7 million retirees, payments land in their bank accounts every four weeks.
It is not means-tested – everyone who builds up enough qualifying years of National Insurance contributions can secure a regular payment for life. This is particularly important for the more than one million pensioner households currently relying on it as their main source of income.
The state pension is also protected by the triple lock guarantee, which ensures it rises with the highest of inflation, wages or by 2.5pc. But not everyone benefits from this yearly uplift.
That is because they have a frozen state pension – and there are half a million Britons currently in this position.
Here, Telegraph Money explains why a state pension might be frozen, how to unfreeze it and what it all means for those affected.
What is a frozen state pension?
What are the countries where the UK state pension is frozen?
How can I unfreeze my state pension?
FAQs
What is a frozen state pension?
You usually need to build up at least 10 full qualifying years to get any state pension at all and at least 35 years to receive the full amount. Most people do this by paying National Insurance contributions, but there are other ways.
The state pension is paid worldwide, so you will receive payments regardless of where you decide to retire.
However, your payments will only increase each year if you live in certain countries. If you live elsewhere, your payment will remain the same as it was whenever you left the UK for the rest of your life – it will not rise with the triple lock.
This may mean it fails to keep pace with inflation and it could become worth a lot less over time.
What are the countries where the UK state pension is frozen?
If you live in the UK, Gibraltar, Switzerland or the European Economic Area – which is the EU plus Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway – your state pension will rise every year because of the triple lock.
You will also get this increase if you live in a country that the UK has a social security agreement with, including attractive retirement destinations such as the Channel Islands, America and Barbados. You can see the full list of countries in the tool below:

Where pensions indexing is applied

Country
Great Britain
Ireland
USA
Spain
France
Germany
Italy
Cyprus
Netherlands
Portugal
Switzerland
Jamaica
Jersey
Sweden
Greece
Malta
Poland
Belgium
Guernsey
Israel
Austria
Norway
Barbados
Denmark
Philippines
Turkey
Gibraltar
Finland
Bulgaria
Isle of Man
Hungary
Mauritius
Republic of Lithuania
The Czech Republic
The Slovak Republic
Bermuda
Luxembourg
Republic of Croatia
Northern Ireland
Republic of Latvia
State Union of Serbia and Montenegro
Alderney
Republic of Slovenia
Romania
Republic of Estonia
Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia
Iceland
Virgin Islands (USA)
Liechtenstein
Sark
However, this does not include Canada or New Zealand, even though they do have similar agreements in place.
If you live in any other country, such as Australia, South Africa or India, your state pension will be frozen. This means it will not increase unless you move to a country where the state pension increases are awarded.
Clare Moffat, of Royal London, said: “Where you retire has a big effect on your state pension and whether it increases. If you are thinking of moving abroad, the best thing to do is to check on gov.uk before you set your heart on a country to retire to.”
How can I unfreeze my state pension?
If you move to a country eligible for state pension rises for more than 183 days a year, your state pension will “unfreeze” and jump to the amount you’d be entitled to if you’d stayed in an eligible country the whole time.
It will also start to increase annually with the triple lock. However, this cannot be backdated, so any money you missed out on when you didn’t live there is lost.
For example, if you get the full new state pension but left the UK in 2020, you’d still receive state pension payments of £168.60 a week (the rate it was in 2020). But, if you moved back to the UK, or to another country where uplifts are provided, your pension would be increased to £221.20 a week, the full rate for 2024-25. You wouldn’t receive anything for the increases you missed.
If you spend more than half the year in an eligible country, you’ll still get annual increases even if you spend the rest of the time in one that isn’t.
The countries with the most UK state pensioners
Country
Number
Australia
208,337
Ireland
127,347
United States
119,718
Canada
113,840
Spain
101,932
France
69,508
New Zealand
61,362
Germany
44,044
Italy
31,289
South Africa
26,685
Source: DWP
When you decide to move to a different country, you should contact the International Pension Centre on 0191 218 7777 to report a change in circumstances as soon as possible.
If you’re visiting a country where rises are provided, even just for a short holiday, you can get your state pension increased for the time you’re there. There’s no minimum stay, but it’s only temporary and when you leave, it’ll return to the frozen amount.
You’ll need to apply for this within one month of the date you arrive in that country. The trip must include the normal day of the week that your pension is paid on, but it doesn’t have to be the actual date when you receive your pension.
So if you’re paid every fourth Monday of the year, you must be in that country for at least one Monday, but not necessarily a Monday when the state pension landed in your account. Again, you should contact the International Pension Centre.
A government spokesman said: “We understand that people move abroad for many reasons, and we provide clear information on gov.uk about how this can impact their finances in retirement. The International Pension Centre is a source of advice for people who are already retired.”
Frozen pensions FAQ
If I leave the UK now and I have already starting claiming the state pension, how much will I get?
You will receive the same amount as you get now and that will not change, unless you move to an eligible country.
Ms Moffat said: “If you are already receiving the state pension and moved abroad today, you would continue to receive your state pension of £221.20 a week.
“But it would remain at that level, putting you out of kilter in the future with friends and family in the UK of the same age, who would benefit from any increases through the triple lock.”
How much will I receive if I am already abroad when I retire and I do not live in a country where uplifts are provided?
You can still claim your state pension, but it will remain at the rate you got when you begin claiming it – unless you move to an eligible country that allows you to get uplifts in future years.
For example, if you live in Australia and have built up enough qualifying years to get the full UK state pension and claim it now, you will receive £221.20 a week. It will stay at that amount unless you move to a country where you are eligible for increases, regardless of how long you live.
What if I live part of the year in the UK or another eligible country and part of the year abroad?
You have to choose which country you want your state pension to be paid in. If you spend more than 183 days in a country eligible for the state pension increases, you can choose this one and your pension will rise.
What if I return to the UK and then leave again?
When you return, your state pension will be topped up to the full level for the duration of your time in the UK – but it will freeze again at that rate when you leave.
For example, if you claimed your state pension in January 2020 and left the UK for a country not eligible for increases, it would be frozen at £168.60 a week.
If you returned to live in the UK in 2024, you would start getting the current rate for 2024 to 2025, of £221.20. If you lived in the UK until 2030 and then left, your state pension would be frozen again at the 2030 rate.
If you visited or came to the UK temporarily, you would get £221.20 rate until you left, when it would revert to the rate you were getting when you initially left – £168.60.

If I deferred my state pension, will I still get the higher amount when I claim, or is it capped?
You are still entitled to the higher amount, regardless of where you live. But if you live in a country where uplifts are not provided, it would remain frozen at that level.
Can I still get pension credit?
If you leave the UK, your pension credit will stop regardless of which country you move to.
Does your state pension freeze if you go to prison or you die?
If you are convicted of a crime and go to prison, your state pension is paused. You will receive it again when you are released, but unless you were on remand and eventually not convicted, you cannot get back what you missed while incarcerated.
The state pension stops when you die, although if you are survived by your spouse, they might be able to inherit some of it.
Maximising your pension
Now that Labour is in power, what does it have in store for your retirement savings – and what can you do about it?
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RetireJapan
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by RetireJapan »

Bubblegun wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:30 am
RetireJapan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:28 am
Bubblegun wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 2:46 am it will revert back to level we originally had, when it was initially frozen
I've never heard that. Do you have a source?
Yes, I read it here. So from my interpretationi it will be unfrozen while you are in the UK, or treated countries, but if you repatriate back to a NON treaty country I.E Japan it was frozen. On your return it will revert back to the original amount.
On a short stay, IT WILL ONLY BE HIKED FOR THE DURATTION OF A TRIP, but the gulf between the frozen and the standard amounts can be so huge that it is worth it even then.

Very elderly people might not often travel to the UK, or the other 'unfrozen' countries where you can also get your payments increased temporarily

I keep digging around, and I think there is an article in the telegraph, that says something similar,but it is behind a payment wall

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pen ... 20the%20UK.
That's referring to a temporary stay I believe. If you moved permanently to the UK or a similar country it would unfreeze your pension. If you then moved to a non-treaty country it would freeze again, but at the current (reset) level.

Under current rules. Which may change in the future anyway.
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by Wales4rugbyWC23 »

RetireJapan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:57 am
Bubblegun wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:30 am
RetireJapan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:28 am

I've never heard that. Do you have a source?
Yes, I read it here. So from my interpretationi it will be unfrozen while you are in the UK, or treated countries, but if you repatriate back to a NON treaty country I.E Japan it was frozen. On your return it will revert back to the original amount.
On a short stay, IT WILL ONLY BE HIKED FOR THE DURATTION OF A TRIP, but the gulf between the frozen and the standard amounts can be so huge that it is worth it even then.

Very elderly people might not often travel to the UK, or the other 'unfrozen' countries where you can also get your payments increased temporarily

I keep digging around, and I think there is an article in the telegraph, that says something similar,but it is behind a payment wall

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pen ... 20the%20UK.
That's referring to a temporary stay I believe. If you moved permanently to the UK or a similar country it would unfreeze your pension. If you then moved to a non-treaty country it would freeze again, but at the current (reset) level.

Under current rules. Which may change in the future anyway.
Interesting that you can unfreeze your state pension by going to a country that has an agreement with the UK for the uprate. I think I might be going for an annual summer holiday to the Philippines in my retirement.
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by RetireJapan »

Wales4rugbyWC23 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:06 pm Interesting that you can unfreeze your state pension by going to a country that has an agreement with the UK for the uprate. I think I might be going for an annual summer holiday to the Philippines in my retirement.
I'm guessing that would be deemed a short, temporary stay :lol:
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by Bubblegun »

RetireJapan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 11:57 am
Bubblegun wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 10:30 am
RetireJapan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 8:28 am

I've never heard that. Do you have a source?
Yes, I read it here. So from my interpretationi it will be unfrozen while you are in the UK, or treated countries, but if you repatriate back to a NON treaty country I.E Japan it was frozen. On your return it will revert back to the original amount.
On a short stay, IT WILL ONLY BE HIKED FOR THE DURATTION OF A TRIP, but the gulf between the frozen and the standard amounts can be so huge that it is worth it even then.

Very elderly people might not often travel to the UK, or the other 'unfrozen' countries where you can also get your payments increased temporarily

I keep digging around, and I think there is an article in the telegraph, that says something similar,but it is behind a payment wall

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pen ... 20the%20UK.
That's referring to a temporary stay I believe. If you moved permanently to the UK or a similar country it would unfreeze your pension. If you then moved to a non-treaty country it would freeze again, but at the current (reset) level.

Under current rules. Which may change in the future anyway.
Absolutely! If you returned to the UK on a permanent basis you get the full increase.
If you visit, it will revert back.
But i wonder how long they define LONG term V short term visit? Is a 6 month visit long term or short term.
If you spend more than 183 days in a country eligible for the state pension increases,
The devil is in the details! Would this be long enough for us to be in the UK and return to Japan thats "doesn't" get the annual increase and NOT revert back to the old rate. Maybe, maybe not? A year or two? Who knows!
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Wales4rugbyWC23
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by Wales4rugbyWC23 »

RetireJapan wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:20 pm
Wales4rugbyWC23 wrote: Thu Oct 10, 2024 1:06 pm Interesting that you can unfreeze your state pension by going to a country that has an agreement with the UK for the uprate. I think I might be going for an annual summer holiday to the Philippines in my retirement.
I'm guessing that would be deemed a short, temporary stay :lol:
Given the current astronomical prices for airfares going back to the UK would it really be worth it just for a few pounds uprating of your state pension. Given the UK's much higher cost of living any increase would be soon wiped out. Give me two months summer holidays in the Philippines over that any day of the week.
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by Deep Blue »

It is the airfare when we are retired than we would need to worry about, not now…. I guess triple lock will be a goner by then anyway so more likely all state pensions (regardless of residency) will increase at the same rate?
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Re: When to take your Japanese pension?

Post by Roger Van Zant »

Bubblegun wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:28 pm
Roger Van Zant wrote: Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:09 am
Bubblegun wrote: Tue Oct 08, 2024 9:35 am

I would like to think we can get a benefit. Although with the current Bank of Japan manipulating its currency. We might see peaks and troughs.I remember when a pound was about 225 yen then went all the way down to 125 yen ish post Lehman.
What do you think you'll do with your JP pension? Take it early? or wait until 65? I can't imagine what state some expats are going to be in when they hit 65. It's a math thing, money in V life expectancy+ quality of life?.
I'll try to hold off taking my Japanese pension as long as possible....
My company will kick me out the door at 62. I do have the option to continue working for them until 65, but probably on half the salary for the same workload; this is the Japanese way of thanking their employees for working for them for thirty years.
I think I can draw my UK pension from 67?
I am saving now using iDeCo and NISA so that I have funds to cover me from 62 to 67.
Luckily for me, I don't have a family to provide for, so this reduces stress levels quite a bit.
I know many foreigners here who avoided paying into the Japanese pension system and who also do not bother paying into their own countries' pension systems; gross irresponsibility, simple as that.
Gotta love japanese age discrimination.I understand holding off.But i wonder why they kick you out at 62? Is it a cost cutting thing? You can claim your pension, cut your work down, still earn, but somehow be cost/tax neutral? I have no idea. I can see it as a way to reduce company costs, and bring in a new young college grad.
Yes,I have to agree it is gross irresponsibility if they stick their head in the sand, but I also think some don't know they can pay their N.I back home. especially when the system here is so complicated and convoluted. Back in the day the internet wasn't that great, and I'm not even sure HMRS even had a website. The ones that do know, and can't be bothered, it does lean towards to irresponsible, but i also understand if they are having problems here with poor job security, poor contracts, and maybe just earning enough, it might not be a priority.
It's 100% a cost-cutting thing.
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