UK State Pension newbie

[adamu]

My friend recently said that it’s impossible to claim 2 pensions living in Japan (Japanese and foreign). Is that true? Or is he talking out of his…

It depends on the country.

Some countries have totalization agreements, meaning payments in one country count for payments in the other, then you pick one pension.

Other countries, such as the UK, don't. So you can claim both, providing you qualify for both of them.

[RetireJapan]

My friend recently said that it’s impossible to claim 2 pensions living in Japan (Japanese and foreign). Is that true? Or is he talking out of his…

I don't think that's true (otherwise the UK state pension is not the bargain I've been telling people it is!).

I know the US will reduce Social Security for people who are receiving other pensions, but I'm pretty sure neither the UK not Japan do that currently.

[SZQ]

...
My contact just got back to me and she confirmed it's ok to give you her E-mail address so I just PMed you.

However, I think you have now got it set up

Hi Chris,

Would it be possible to ask her for permission to share it with myself as well please. Thanks, appreciated.

[SZQ]

Just to update everyone on my status (I was the one to start this thread but seems the last one to get a response ).

I never got a reply to any of my emails and never received a response to my first letter with the application form. So I sent another about 3 months ago and finally got a response.

Rejected for Class 2 . Reason "You do not meet the conditions shown above as you have stated that you are not employed abroad".

The response letter said for Class 2 the conditions are
1. "immediately before going abroad you were ordinarily an employed or self-employed earning in the UK, and before going abroad you paid a set amount in NICs for 3 years or more"
2. "you are either employed or self-employed abroad"

So I meet the first condition but not the second one. However, I certainly am employed abroad and have been working in Japan since late 2017. I made this clear in my letter. I gave them my whole history. Maybe he meant I wasn't employed immediately after leaving the UK? His letter isn't clear.

The letter did say I do meet the criterion to pay voluntary Class 3 NICs though so that's something. But as there is such a huge difference in Class 2 and Class 3 NICs, I am going to try and clarify the Class 2 rejection first. Maybe I made a mistake on the form. I'll send them a follow up letter.

Not sure Class 3 NICs are worthwhile. Together with Japan pension payments, which are a lot to me, it's tough.

[RetireJapan]

Not sure Class 3 NICs are worthwhile. Together with Japan pension payments, which are a lot to me, it's tough.

I was not able to get approved for Class 2 contributions (I might have been able to by applying over and over again like some others have) but for me even the more expensive Class 3 are very much worth it.

The UK state pension will give you a much better return than nenkin or a private annuity, and provides good diversification.

I would recommend trying to find a way to make it worth if you can (sending in the application for Class 2 again might be worth trying too).

Good luck!

[SZQ]

I was not able to get approved for Class 2 contributions (I might have been able to by applying over and over again like some others have) but for me even the more expensive Class 3 are very much worth it.

The UK state pension will give you a much better return than nenkin or a private annuity, and provides good diversification.

I would recommend trying to find a way to make it worth if you can (sending in the application for Class 2 again might be worth trying too).

Good luck!

Yeah, you're right I think. I have 13 years of contributions already (before I left) so I guess it does make sense to continue. I missed 12 years so that's ~£9600 I need to pay to catch up and then another ~£8000 to get the 35 years. I'm finally planning to buy a house/apartment this coming year and need to build a big enough down payment for that so considering the options and priorities.

I will try one time to clarify with them regarding Class 2 just in case I did make a mistake, otherwise will settle for Class 3.

Thank you!

[Beaglehound]

Love how they take months to let you know that they haven’t bothered to read your form properly…

Definitely try again for the class 2s. They may not be around forever but while they are the savings are obviously significant. If it must be class 3s then, yes, they are probably still worth it but certainly less compelling. As you have 13 years already, you would at least be entitled to something even if you decide not to go for the full 35 years. My missus has 16 years in the U.K. but as she should get a decent Japanese pension and would be class 3, we are not paying now, but may well add a few years as she gets into her 60s.

[SZQ]

Love how they take months to let you know that they haven’t bothered to read your form properly…

Definitely try again for the class 2s. They may not be around forever but while they are the savings are obviously significant. If it must be class 3s then, yes, they are probably still worth it but certainly less compelling. As you have 13 years already, you would at least be entitled to something even if you decide not to go for the full 35 years. My missus has 16 years in the U.K. but as she should get a decent Japanese pension and would be class 3, we are not paying now, but may well add a few years as she gets into her 60s.

Lol, it took just over a year for them to say no .. But with the Covid situation I guess things are going to take longer so I can't be too annoyed.

When I check HMRC website, it says i have until 2023 to pay the missing years so there's still time to think about things. But, as you mention, things may change. You make a good point about only paying some years, no need to go for the full 35 years. I hadn't considered that.

I will wait to see if Chris sees my message and is able to share his HMRC contact's email. It will be much simpler and faster to deal with someone helpful directly via email instead taking months by sending letters. I wish there was some online portal with a secure messaging system.

Cheers

[beanhead]

I will wait to see if Chris sees my message and is able to share his HMRC contact's email. It will be much simpler and faster to deal with someone helpful directly via email instead taking months by sending letters. I wish there was some online portal with a secure messaging system.

Cheers

If you have another year or so before you have to make a decision, definitely appeal that Class 2 rejection. I would write a letter with another form, send that to them, and then have scanned / digital versions to email as well if you do get that email contact. If you are able to negotiate your way to Class 2 then paying back the lost years definitely makes sense. Then you can still decide whether to continue paying in for the final 10 years. If Class 3 is the only option, then put together a spreadsheet and see if it makes sense, especially as you have other priorities right now.

The only thing to remember is that the rate to pay back the old contributions will be slightly lower than future ones.

[SZQ]

If you have another year or so before you have to make a decision, definitely appeal that Class 2 rejection. I would write a letter with another form, send that to them, and then have scanned / digital versions to email as well if you do get that email contact. If you are able to negotiate your way to Class 2 then paying back the lost years definitely makes sense. Then you can still decide whether to continue paying in for the final 10 years. If Class 3 is the only option, then put together a spreadsheet and see if it makes sense, especially as you have other priorities right now.

The only thing to remember is that the rate to pay back the old contributions will be slightly lower than future ones.

Thanks beanhead and everyone else for their advice. I Really appreciate it!

Class 2 is an unbelievably good deal so I will try again. Maybe it's too good so HMRC try to find any excuse not to allow it.