RetireJapan

Hello,

my wife and I are considering moving to my home country for a few years. The reasons are:

• wife would like to experience living outside of Japan
• I also miss my home country and wouldn't mind being back there for a while
• we are expecting a baby very soon, so going now and coming back before the kid goes to school might be a good time. Also it's a chance for the kid to build an ever so tiny foundation in my home country's language (not English) I hope.

We would be staying for a few years and then come back to Japan to stay here for good.

I'm thinking what is the best way to go about this without giving up everthing here. If I understand correctly, if I get permantent residency (PR) now, I could keep it if I only leave Japan temporarily for up to 5 years. Will having PR make keeping things like bank accounts etc easier?

Here is my situation:

• in Japan for 7 years (in case it matters for taxes)
• I'm eligible for PR now and could get it before we leave
• I have almost all my savings and investments (NISA, iDeco) here in Japan
• spouse is Japanese
• I could keep an address in Japan for banks etc if needed (my spouse's family's address)

I have to consider three scenarios:

1. be back within 1 year (e.g. wife cannot adapt and wants to go back)
2. be back within 5 years (or whatever is the limit to keep PR)
3. stay longer than 5 years (e.g. we like it so much that we don't want to come back yet)

Regarding PR:
If I get PR and we end up staying longer than 5 years, will I lose it for sure? What if I lose it and come back to Japan and want to get PR again in the future (it might be important for getting loans to buy a house etc). Will having lost PR once affect my ability to get it again?

Regarding banks:
If I understand correctly, I'm supposed to close all my accounts when I leave Japan. But I also think that the banks might not really know about this and I could potentially keep my accounts as long as I can give them an address where their mail won't bounce. I guess even in the worst case they would freeze the account and I would not just lose the money in there, so I don't really see a downside. But on the upside, if we come back to Japan quickly (scenario 1), it will be good to have kept them.

Regarding investments:
I think I can keep my iDeco, just won't be able to contribute to it. But what happens to existing NISA accounts when I leave? I think I read somewhere that they will get converted to normal investment accounts. Would I have to sell and close the account when I leave? If any of my NISA is underwater at the time (very possible given that we might still have the worst of the corona crisis ahead of us), will this be a big tax loss (capital loss that is not tax relevant)?

Exit tax?
I also heard that there is such a thing like exit tax. Does it mean I have to sell all investments (for example including some crypto currencies I still hold)? In that case the timing of leaving would be much more important, for example to carry the tax burden into a new year where I haven't had any salary income yet. Will this be even relevant if I have PR with intention to come back?

Regarding pension:
My home country has a "totalization" agreement with Japan. I'm not 100% of the meaning of this but it seems that years contributed in Japan, and years contributed in my home country are added up. So ideally the contributions I make in the few years that I will spend in my home country will count towards the pension I can receive in Japan but it's a bit difficult to understand. If I have contributed in both countries, how is it decided which country will pay my pension in the end? Do I explicitly need to transfer the years paid in one country to the other? So I can keep my Japan-paid years, and then transfer the years I paid in my home country to be added to my Japanese pension? If I transfer them the opposite way, could there be benefits like one country will pay a higher pension than the other (with respect to the contributions made)?

Sorry that's a lot of questions but if anybody knows about these issues or has done something similar, I would be very eager to hear. Thank you!

(I have seen another thread about this but the scope was kind of different, more about leaving Japan permanently viewtopic.php?f=2&t=965)

You don’t need to worry about exit tax unless you have over 100million yen in stocks and bonds. Cash and real estate don’t count I believe.

You might get away with keeping bank accounts open but it seems some are keen on seeing a copy of your residence card from time to time, which could be what catches you out.

I would be guessing on your other questions so will leave for others to chip in.

be back within 5 years (or whatever is the limit to keep PR)

If you decide it's best to forgo residency whilst you are away then approach your bank/brokerages individually.
They may have some flexibility but no obligation to keep your accounts open.
And yes. We all know people that have kept accounts open for years but I can't recommend such an approach.

For the NISA side of things, if you will be away over a year, whilst it's recommended to seek expert help, in principle the account will need to be closed.
https://www.ht-tax.or.jp/htmedia/?p=1228


EDIT:

Removed comments saying you need a strong reason for the 5 year re-entry permit (single or multi-pass).
Seems like requesting the 5 year re-entry permit is itself is a simple process.

Beaglehound wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:34 am You don’t need to worry about exit tax unless you have over 100million yen in stocks and bonds.

Ah great, then that's one less thing to worry about.

Moneymatters wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:48 am Whatever resident status you hold you need a compelling reason to be out for over one year.

Oh no, that changes everything. I wrongly assumed the 5 years would be a no-questions-asked right of a PR holder. In that case I might have no choice but to give up residency. That would probably have other consequences like not being able to renew my driver's license when it expires.

Edit: I hadn't really looked into the re-entry permit before, but from the information I can find, it doesn't look like you need to submit any reason when applying for it (http://www.moj.go.jp/ONLINE/IMMIGRATION/16-5.html). Maybe I'm missing something here.

I thought that getting PR and a re-entry permit should exactly be for people like me who have their life in Japan but want to leave temporarily with strong intention of coming back. On the other hand I can see that if I get PR and then immediately leave the country for more than 1 year, it might look like I'm gaming the system. Anyway I was planning to do the PR application through an agency (as it is discounted though my company) and I can consult them first.

Edit 2: it seems that after all, a reason needs to be given for a re-entry permit. On the application form I can only see some checkboxes, though. At least for the time being I would like to assume that as long as I can make my intention to come back here clear and that my visit to my home country will only be of temporary nature, I should be allowed to get a re-entry permit.

According to the law:

４　出入国在留管理庁長官は、再入国の許可を受けている外国人から、法務大臣に対する第二十条第二項又は第二十一条第二項の規定による申請があつた場合において、相当と認めるときは、当該外国人が第二十条第六項の規定により在留できる期間の終了の時まで、当該許可の有効期間を延長することができる。
(4)　Where an application pursuant to the provisions of Article 20, paragraph (2) or Article 21, paragraph (2) has been filed by a Foreign National who has been granted re-entry permission, the Commissioner of the Immigration Services Agency can extend the validity period of the permission submitted to the Minister of Justice until the end of the period during which such Foreign National may reside pursuant to the provisions of Article 20, paragraph (6) if considered appropriate.
５　出入国在留管理庁長官は、再入国の許可を受けて出国した者について、当該許可の有効期間内に再入国することができない相当の理由があると認めるときは、その者の申請に基づき、一年を超えず、かつ、当該許可が効力を生じた日から六年を超えない範囲内で、当該許可の有効期間の延長の許可をすることができる。
(5)　The Commissioner of the Immigration Services Agency may grant an extension of the validity period, if the Minister finds that a person who has left Japan with re-entry permission has reasonable grounds for not being able to re-enter within the validity period of the permission based on an application from the Foreign National, of up to 1 year within 6 years from the effective date of the permission.
６　前項の許可は、旅券又は再入国許可書にその旨を記載して行うものとし、その事務は、日本国領事官等に委任するものとする。
(6)　The permission set forth in the preceding paragraph is to be entered in the Passport or the re-entry permit, and the administrative work is to be entrusted to a Japanese Consular Officer, etc.

It sounds like with PR + a multiple re-entry permit (a proper one, not the special one-year one you get automatically), you could indeed just come back within the 5 years, and even if you can't manage that you could get a renewal if you can convince the embassy that you have "reasonable grounds for not being able to re-enter within the validity period of the permission", and keep your PR.

allThatMoney wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:01 am Will having PR make keeping things like bank accounts etc easier?

I don't think so. Probably what's important is to stay on the residency management system so you have a valid juminhyou. Maybe you could use your wife's family's address. I'm not sure what the rules are regarding that though. Hope you post your findings

allThatMoney wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:01 am I thought that getting PR and a re-entry permit should exactly be for people like me who have their life in Japan but want to leave temporarily with strong intention of coming back. On the other hand I can see that if I get PR and then immediately leave the country for more than 1 year, it might look like I'm gaming the system. Anyway I was planning to do the PR application through an agency (as it is discounted though my company) and I can consult them first.

Edit 2: it seems that after all, a reason needs to be given for a re-entry permit. On the application form I can only see some checkboxes, though. At least for the time being I would like to assume that as long as I can make my intention to come back here clear and that my visit to my home country will only be of temporary nature, I should be allowed to get a re-entry permit.

I always get 5-year re-entry permits (just in case -I'm paranoid): https://www.retirejapan.com/blog/immigration-stuff/

My understanding is that it is possible you could lose your PR if you just left Japan with a 5-year re-entry permit and immigration wanted to prove a point. Seems a fairly unlikely outcome, but possible.

You could probably get away with not closing accounts if you have a live address you can use. Moving your jyuuminhyou overseas is another can of worms. Remember to leave before December 31st if you want to avoid paying the following year's residence tax.