RetireJapan

A competent Aussie-Japanese tax lawyer who can answer our questions, either in confidence one-to-one, or for the more generic stuff, for our common concerns.

How much would we be willing to pay? If we (pulling this number out of my...) found 50 people in Japan, willing to pitch in ??10,000, surely we could ‘tender’ for someone either back home, or here and with the 500,000 yen and set up a reliable service from which we could then pay a fee-for-service.

What we have now is not sustainable and stressful.
1) Aussie tax advisors, financial peor who say, “sorry, don’t k ow about the Japanese side.
2) this lack of knowledge causes everyone to be suspicious - even if each other and encourages a gambling kind of response....I.e, but apartments in Indonesia fell ni onetc, don’t declare, tell everyone you declare, all kinds of stuff
3) Obviously a public forum like this , while great, does not suffice because it’s all very well to discuss which sticks to buy, how to lodge an xyz form, but it is not going to help set up the underlying structure to financial peace of mind because it is all secret - or partly (and for good reason)
4) OECD agreements are new, thus gives us one opportunity, before random audits of individuals will start to ratchet up the paranoia on a lonely evening ..

OK, seriously, Aussies, what are your feelings about this?

1) I would like to support this effort to set up a qualified service dedicated to Aussies in Japan
2) Good idea in principal, not practical or feasible
3) I’m alright (thanks) Jack

TBH, I think option 3 pretty much is par for the course but I really think times are changing and we have a unique chance to act now...

This is definitely an idea I would consider. Taking all the tax implications into consideration I am having serious doubts about staying in Japan long term. Not only do you sacrifice a huge amount of income in the first place, you get doubly rolled with the tax implications.

When/if I move back I will consider doing a 5 year stint (to avoid double taxation) and then move on (but I'm sure everyone is in a different boat.) This site is amazingly insightful and will continue to play a huge part in educating me about this.

1. Stay off the Blue Nun.
2. Why do you need a “tax lawyer”? What have you done/been accused of/want to avoid?
3. Everyone’s situation is different.

Thx Thurston
Ricardo,

Lol the lawyer bit is because the regular accountants I’ve asked in the past in Australia suggested a tax lawyer. TBH, I don’t know exactly what a tax lawyer does except businesses consult them.

Re. The Everyone is different point, if that be so, what is the point of this forum? We as Residents in Japan for Tax Purposes, and with Australian passports may have a lot in common that require detailed knowledge for the lodgment of taxes, making a good strategy for retirement (just for example) you could a) have family in Australia with assets in their name and be included in a will with parents, grandparents in Australia as as residents of Australia for taxation b) hold stocks,bonds in Australia, c) super, d) property and collect rent , e) hope to know about eligibility for a pension, f) would like to know the implications of buying a house in Japan and how that impacts your status.

Can you tell me a single accountant anywhere on this earth that can make a lodgement in Japan and Australia that correctly accounts for this?

What if you have a negatively geared place in Australia? Can you claim losses here?

The ATO and JTO won’t let us off because, “we are all different” The twenty million yen rule applies for (full in the blank) applies to all of us.

Blue Nunn? Definitely..lol with the Cup Ramen!

couldn't agree more AustinJapan.

this situation is ever so confusing.

I am basically resigned to the fact that I will never work longer than 10 years in Japan. And when I retire I will enter and exit on tourist visas. I think you can do this up to 180 days per year.

I am not going to pay ridiculous amounts of cash for nothing!

It’s not easy to find someone with the skill set to give this type of advice. The big four accounting firms can do it, but they charge a packet. Don’t expect your local tax agent to be full bottle on the Japanese and Australian tax regimes, including retirement and estate planning.

And be careful what you wish for. There’s the real prospect that, if you get this advice, you’ll end up paying more tax, not less. Japan doesn't have the reputation as one of the highest taxing countries in the world for nothing.

There is no silver bullet in the Australia-Japan tax treaty that exempts us from Japanese tax. It is designed to reduce double taxation, that’s all. So, if the tax rate in Australia is, say, 20% and the tax rate in Japan is 30%, you end up paying the higher rate. That is, you get the worst of both worlds.

Doofus,

Thank you for your reply.

Your post is spot on but unfortunately the polar opposite of what I want to hear. "Be careful what you wish for?" ha ...I am already feeling the cool wind getting cooler....!!

What you say sounds sensible and reasonable (and frankly what I guess is the underlying rationale for many an Aussie's reasoning and rationale etc.)

And unfortunately, none of it would count for much at an ATO or JTO (or both) audit.

So what are we to do?

1) run the gauntlet?
2) Go home?

Sucks to have my kind of imagination..but it is reasonable to assume that eventually, random audits will happen. 1 in a 1000 for example. Who pays for it? Some OECD fund? Who cares. But knowing how things work in Japan, in so far as i know university teachers are randomly audited for research grant expenditure, it just seems that it will happen.

OR - and check this, all funds will automatically show up regardless of declaration. This is could be a higher possibility.

..and THEN a retrospective audit?

I asked Go Remit yesterday whether giving my My Number to them means complete access to all transactions to JTO, to anyone. Dude had no idea.

For those who think storm in a tea cup etc., I know you are still seeking to get a sniff of this and that somehow, so you know the likelihood of getting caught not declaring etc.,


Alright Jack?. Be careful what you wish for...Jack already knows that dumb ass! lol
I wish for peace of mind and knowing that if i am audited, it will all be good. Impossible wish in 2019. That is the take-away. Politicians take note.

doofus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:54 pm It’s not easy to find someone with the skill set to give this type of advice. The big four accounting firms can do it, but they charge a packet.

Well, what are the big four? I will give them a call. Perhaps we can chip in, create say four fictitious characters with scenarios that reflect our common concerns. i.e.

Character One

Aussie in Japan
45 yrs old. Married to Japanese two kids.
Lived in Japan 8 years, has and likes job wants to stay until 65+
Parents in Australia with property and assets worth two million.
Likely to inherit 1/4 of it less costs in the case of his parents passing
Wants to buy a big old property in Japan to live to take advantage of cheap interest
Wants to buy a two bedroom apartment in Brisbane, put it in his wife's name or his?
Has half a millionAUD in a folio of Vanguard managed funds in Australia consisting of 80% fully-franked Aussie shares
Bought 30,000 AUD Rakuten Vanguard stocks and put them in a NISA wrapper

Makes tax declaration in both countries every year - The Aussie stuff goes on the Aussie forms and the Japanese stuff, salary, Rakuten in Japan.

Wants to know how many rules he/she is breaching? How to tidy it up? Can immunity from prosecution in the event of audit be achieved?

By the way, failing to declare assets carries jail time in Japan - apparently, I've heard, from someone who has heard..from someone...

..this kind of thing...of course if it is too detailed, whatever, that can be addressed...

Andrew Hallam is making us look really stupid. Millionaire teacher, DIY? Yeah, try to get tax advice on your bicycle?

thurston1 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:24 pm this situation is ever so confusing.
I am basically resigned to the fact that I will never work longer than 10 years in Japan. And when I retire I will enter and exit on tourist visas. I think

You know Thurston,
Japan, with its falling population has a vested interest in helping people stay in Japan longer. Plus, they have shown themselves to be super-nice and helpful down at the local tax office so far. No attitude that I have noticed...only genuinely helpful.

-And they have some tough rules...i.e one day late on tax declaration, pay x, two days, pay y etc.,

It almost makes me think that a well laid out letter to the Australian Embassy in Tokyo, might open the door for a kind of 'amnesty period' where Aussies could get free advice about the laws immune from prosecution, but I guess that is not how the world goes - until it does!

You misunderstand me. If you're a permanent tax resident of Japan, you should declare Australian source investment income in your Japanese tax return. I do. If you just ignore it, you'll get caught out sooner or later.

I'm just saying that the advice might not give you the answer you're hoping for.

What I would say is, if you're going to get advice, do it before you become a permanent tax resident of Japan. That way you still have a chance to rejig your Australian assets before it's too late. For example, if you own a house in Australia, or have unrealised capital gains in your share portfolio, you might want to think about crystallising these before the Japanese tax obligations kick in. Things like the main residence exemption from capital gains tax work differently in Japan.