RetireJapan

Hello again, everyone.

I understand that gold is taxed at 10% and I am subject to paying that tax if/when I bring bullion into Japan.

What I am curious about is, what is the process of selling gold in Japan? I'd love to hear that you just walk in, drop your gold on the counter and walk out with cash, but I am guessing it is more complicated than that.

Anyone with experience selling bullion in Japan?

Yatsushiro2 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 12:18 am Hello again, everyone.

I understand that gold is taxed at 10% and I am subject to paying that tax if/when I bring bullion into Japan.

What I am curious about is, what is the process of selling gold in Japan? I'd love to hear that you just walk in, drop your gold on the counter and walk out with cash, but I am guessing it is more complicated than that.

Anyone with experience selling bullion in Japan?

I read recently that when someone tried to sell some gold they'd brought from abroad at Tanaka Kinzoku (which dominates the market here), they wanted info on its origin before doing any deal--probably that taxes had been paid on it at acquisition, and that it wasn't a result of smuggling.

Yes, you can legally bring in small amounts, but if they won't do business with you, then you won't get much for your coins/ingots.

captainspoke wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2024 1:30 am
I read recently that when someone tried to sell some gold they'd brought from abroad at Tanaka Kinzoku (which dominates the market here), they wanted info on its origin before doing any deal--probably that taxes had been paid on it at acquisition, and that it wasn't a result of smuggling.

Yes, you can legally bring in small amounts, but if they won't do business with you, then you won't get much for your coins/ingots.

Interesting. Well, if I pay the tax when I bring it into Japan, I assume I'll receive proof of that payment from customs.

It might be easier to simply liquidate it in Canada before the move to Japan. I dunno. I'd love to keep the shiny stuff...

There are no special limits I am aware of on the amount of gold you can bring into the country as long as it is properly declared and consumption tax paid (there are no tariffs on gold -- just consumption tax).

Regarding consumption tax, the purchaser is the one who pays, so although in Japan the consumer pays 10% tax when purchasing gold or when declaring it at customs, the dealer pays 10% tax to the consumer when the gold changes hands again, meaning that the consumer incurs no loss in that respect. Smugglers hope to gain that 10% boost by avoiding paying consumption tax altogether when entering the country.

Gold is included in the standard 200,000 yen customs exemption, so it's technically possible to make a small profit by buying gold overseas and selling it in Japan. But even small amounts of gold must be declared when entering the country (any single item worth over 10,000 yen). Also, customs declarations get more detailed when the amount of gold being "imported" is 1 kilogram or more.

To sell bullion or coins, you generally fill out an application, provide government-issued ID (a residence card will work; your MyNumber is necessary for amounts over 1 million yen), and receive payment either in cash or by bank transfer (Tanaka Kikinzoku requires the latter once the value exceeds 1 million yen). Dealers will of course be concerned about money laundering, so reluctance to buy from a noncitizen or recent resident may cause difficulty, but I have no idea how common that might be.

There are any number of 買取業者・質屋 (buyers and pawnshops) active in the market besides the dominant Tanaka Kikinzoku (which is a smelter and has a reputation to uphold). Many dealers, including the majors, not only offer physical locations but will conduct business by phone and/or home delivery, or even visit your home. You would want to check on any any fees before actually selling (e.g., there is a fee for selling less than 500 grams of bullion).

Thanks for all that excellent info, ClearAsMud!

Years ago a friend would buy gold ounces in the USA and bring them back in his (and family member's) pockets. At that time an once was under $1,000.

Not sure if he was over any limits or not. My guess is he never declared it.

He sold them privately by word of mouth to Japanese.

The declaration thing I didn't know about. Is that for bullion only?
We have brought back gold jewelry (24k) that cost much more than ¥10,000 (but under 200,000 per person).

TJKansai wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:15 am The declaration thing I didn't know about. Is that for bullion only?
We have brought back gold jewelry (24k) that cost much more than ¥10,000 (but under 200,000 per person).

Just to be sure, I had a look at the current customs declaration, downloadable in English here. Section 1 requires the declaration of any gold bullion OR products made of gold (the Japanese is 金製品, so gold jewelry would also qualify). The "Description" section on Side B of the form then requires declaring the market value of each such item for personal use worth over 10,000 yen. (The English word "item" is the translation of the Japanese "品目," which is actually more like a category.)

So yes, the jewelry you mention should have been declared even if tax wasn't due, although I imagine it is a commonly overlooked thing.

ClearAsMud wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 3:27 am

TJKansai wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 2:15 am The declaration thing I didn't know about. Is that for bullion only?
We have brought back gold jewelry (24k) that cost much more than ¥10,000 (but under 200,000 per person).

Just to be sure, I had a look at the current customs declaration, downloadable in English here. Section 1 requires the declaration of any gold bullion OR products made of gold (the Japanese is 金製品, so gold jewelry would also qualify). The "Description" section on Side B of the form then requires declaring the market value of each such item for personal use worth over 10,000 yen. (The English word "item" is the translation of the Japanese "品目," which is actually more like a category.)

So yes, the jewelry you mention should have been declared even if tax wasn't due, although I imagine it is a commonly overlooked thing.

With prices the way they are now (JPY weak, gold up), almost any gold item will be worth over ¥10,000.
My wife was interested in a pair of earings in Thailand and they were 10x the price she expected.

Yeah, record gold prices hit in recent days - I don’t think I will sell my gold products until I need to spend the money.

Seems pretty tough to bring in bullion to Japan though - if they are going to demand you pay 10% consumption tax, even though you might like to just hold and stroke your gold, rather than sell it (whereupon you presumably get 10% back…)

But if the price says doubles again, you’d actually get back more consumption tax than you paid to bring it in? Is that how it works?

sutebayashi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:21 ameven though you might like to just hold and stroke your gold

I bought some bullion (in the form of £100 Britannia coins, which in the UK are CGT & VAT free because they're "money") around the same time I bought into Bitcoin. It was quite fun to toss around. Let's just say the Bitcoin worked out better...

Funnily enough, all the arguments against Bitcoin work for gold too (except for energy consumption, Bitcoin probably wins on that at 7 million electric kettles of power. And fraud. Sorry I'll go back to one of the Bitcoin threads now).