RetireJapan

Hi

I'm new here and currently trying to get various ducks in a row regarding Serious Life Stuff. I will, as per handle, have some clueless questions about the money end of things, but right now I'm trying to kick off the process for getting a UK passport for my child and wondering if anyone else has done that recently. I did find this related thread: British consular birth registration but it's a couple of years old.

Me: bog-standard UK citizen born in the UK descending from a long line of bog-standard UK citizens
My wife: bog-standard Japanese citizen born in Japan descending from a long line of bog-standard Japanese citizens
Child: 9 years old, has Japanese passport (no middle name and the romanisation of his name in the Japanese passport is "correct"); has not been registered at the UK consulate (my understanding is that this is not necessary)

Specifically, I've done a "trial run" through the online application process and it tells me I need:

Grandparents’ documents
Send all of the following for both maternal grandparents:
• full birth or adoption certificate (showing both the child’s and parents’ details)
• grandfather’s marriage certificate to your grandmother (if this applies)

And all of the following for both paternal grandparents:
• full birth or adoption certificate (showing both the child’s and parents’ details)
• grandfather’s marriage certificate to your grandmother (if this applies)

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the above is all from the viewpoint of the applicant, so this will be the parents of my wife and myself respectively. Does anyone have any recent experience with supplying this information for the Japanese grandparents? Which document(s) correspond here? Would a 戸籍謄本 cover birth and marriage? Are they even actually necessary, given that they have no bearing on establishing the child's UK ancestry?

Also, any recommendations for translation services? The linked thread does have one, but open to others.

Any advice, tips greatly appreciated.

Dazed and Confused of Tokyo.

The wiki contains a lot of useful information:
https://retirewiki.jp/wiki/United_Kingd ... _passports

Clicking through the links there gives me this document:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _07.22.pdf

Of which Table D says:

If your parents were born on or after 1 January 1983:
evidence of your grandparents’ claim to British nationality by providing their birth certificates and, in the case of grandfathers, the marriage certificate to your grandmother.

That is the only part from Table D that I can see that would result in grandparents details needing to be provided (beyond what's on your birth certificate), and as you said it seems to be to demonstrate British citizenship, so the maternal grandparents are probably not required.

I don't have experience with this, I'm just interpreting the documents and could be wrong.

Side note: You probably know this, but it sounds like your son was not born in the UK and is therefore a British citizen by descent. This means that if he has children, and the other parent is not a "British citizen otherwise than by descent", your grandchildren will most likely not be British citizens unless they are born in the UK.

adamu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:54 pm The wiki contains a lot of useful information:
https://retirewiki.jp/wiki/United_Kingd ... _passports

Clicking through the links there gives me this document:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _07.22.pdf

That's useful, thanks.

adamu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:54 pm Of which Table D says:

If your parents were born on or after 1 January 1983:
evidence of your grandparents’ claim to British nationality by providing their birth certificates and, in the case of grandfathers, the marriage certificate to your grandmother.

That is the only part from Table D that I can see that would result in grandparents details needing to be provided (beyond what's on your birth certificate), and as you said it seems to be to demonstrate British citizenship, so the maternal grandparents are probably not required.

Aha, it could well be that the system is erroneously jumping to conclusions based on my wife's DOB but not her nationality. And indeed, running through the whole thing again, but putting my wife's DOB to 1982, results in the grandparental information disappearing entirely from the list of required documents.

adamu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 12:54 pm Side note: You probably know this, but it sounds like your son was not born in the UK and is therefore a British citizen by descent. This means that if he has children, and the other parent is not a "British citizen otherwise than by descent", your grandchildren will most likely not be British citizens unless they are born in the UK.

Yeah, I'm familiar with that. I have a fuzzy memory that habitual residence in the UK for 3 years (or something) might override that, but even if so that's not on the radar right now.

1. If the child is born outside the UK to UK Citizen Parent(s) who were born in the UK, then the child is automatically a UK Citizen by Decent.

However, If the child is born outside the UK to UK Citizen Parent(s) who were themselves a UK Citizen by Decent, then the child is not automatically a UK Citizen by Decent, and it would be necessary to apply for Citizenship, which may affect another citizenship such as Japan, where doing so could result in forfeiture of Japanese Citizenship...

However, If the child is born in the UK to UK Citizen Parent(s) who were themselves a UK Citizen by Decent, then the child is a full UK Citizen.

If born to (a) Japanese Parent(s), and correctly registered in Japan, or if the child is born outside Japan, registered at the Japanese Embassy or Consulate WITHIN 90 DAYS of birth, then the child has dual citizenship by birth.

2. You do not have to register the birth of a UK Citizen Child born overseas at the British Embassy, but doing so will provide a Consular Birth Certificate, which confirms the child's UK Citizenship by Decent under Section 2 (1) (a) of the British Nationality Act of 1981 for future reference, so the child can prove UK citizenship even without a passport. There is no deadline to registration, and once registered, this serves as Proof of British Citizenship for life and never expires, unlike a Passport.

However, if a child is born to (a) Japanese Citizen Parent(s) outside Japan, there is a 90 DAY DEADLINE for registration of the birth at the Japanese Embassy of Consulate, and the child will be registered in the Japanese Parent's Koseki Tohon. If the deadline is missed, and the child also has another nationality by birth, the child's Japanese Citizenship by Birth is revoked under Article 12 of the Japanese Nationality Law.

https://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tnl-01.html

"Article 12.
A Japanese national who was born in a foreign country and has acquired a foreign nationality by birth shall lose Japanese nationality retroactively as from the time of birth, unless the Japanese national <'s Parent> clearly indicates his or her volition to reserve Japanese nationality according to the provisions of the Family Registration Law (Law No.224 of 1947). "

https://www.uk.emb-japan.go.jp/itpr_ja/ ... 00050.html

"届出期限
出生の日を含めて3ヶ月以内に届け出る義務があります。
お子様が出生により外国の国籍も取得している場合は、この届出期限を過ぎますと日本国籍を喪失します。期限後には、当館（又は本籍地役場）へ出生届を届け出ることはできませんので、ご注意下さい。"

"Notification deadline
You are required to submit notification within 3 months including the day of birth.
If your child has also acquired a foreign nationality by birth, they will lose their Japanese nationality after this notification deadline. Please note that you will not be able to submit a birth notification to our office (or the registered office) after the deadline."


3. Therefore, your child is entitled to a British Passport.

A UK Consular Birth Certificate is not acceptable for, and cannot be used for a UK Passport application.

You will need to provide the UK National Parent UK Birth Certificate(s), which includes the details of the UK National Parent's parents, and a copy of the UK National Parent's UK Passport picture page.

If the child's mother is not a British Citizen, and the father is, then you also need to prove that you were married when the child was born...
If the UK National Parent(s) were born before 1-Jan-1983, it is not necessary to provide additional documentation of their parents, the child's UK Citizen grand parents.

If you were married in the UK, you need to provide a copy of your UK Marriage Certificate.
If you were married in Japan, or elsewhere, you need to provide a copy of your Japan (or other) Marriage Certificate and a certified translation if the document is not in English.

https://www.gov.uk/get-a-child-passport
https://www.gov.uk/get-a-child-passport ... d-passport
https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality
https://www.gov.uk/overseas-passports

If the child was born in the UK you can use the UK Birth Certificate for the Passport Application.

If the child was born in Japan, you cannot use the Consular Birth Certificate (though you still should get one), so you will need to provide a copy of at least one of the Japanese Certificate of Delivery / Birth Notification Document / Certificate of Acceptance of Birth Notification - Shussei Shoumeisho / Shussei Todoke / Shussei Todoke Juri Shoumeisho and certified translations, and a copy of the Family Register - Koseki Tohon - and a certified translation.

(I have sent PM introduction to my Certified Translator friend in the UK. Please check your Private Messages)

The details of Japanese Grand Parents are included in the Koseki Tohon. (I did not have to provide any additional information.)

And you need to provide a copy of ALL pages of the child's other current (Japanese and any other) Passport(s).

Good questions.

I’m afraid I don’t have the recent firsthand experience you’re looking for. I intend to apply for a first UK passport for a child this year so will also be wrangling with the passport process, but due to my birthdate I don’t have the requirement of grandparents’ documents.

Two sages have already replied with informative content. So, why this reply?

1. to encourage you to post updates as this is a situation others on the forum are likely to encounter.

2. to note (as you may already be aware) that the birth certificates and marriage certificate (if applicable) of your parents should be available from the General Register Office (
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-dea ... ertificate)
if the events occurred in England or Wales, and links within the above link detail the process in Scotland and Northern Ireland too. They are considered public documents and can be ordered by anyone at any time for a small fee.

3. to recognise the dilemma that you now have: you know that your wife’s parents’ documents have no bearing on your child’s British citizenship… but the online HMPO instructions ask for such documents, and you wish to comply with requests to maximise the chance of smooth processing… yet obtaining the documents could prove burdensome and unnecessary.

4. to recognise that others have faced similar situations. Google offers accounts such as:
https://www.immigrationboards.com/briti ... l#p2037968

But rarely are such things conclusive. I imagine you’ve also tried this avenue.

5. to note that HMPO is contactable by phone and a web form, the latter of which states a response time within 72 hours:
https://www.gov.uk/passport-advice-line

This may or may not prove fruitful. (Again, may well be covering territory you’ve already been through.)

6. to note that a copy of the family register can be titled “Certificate of All Matters” in English. Whilst translators cannot alter any content of documents, the exact manner in which the document is described in the certificate of translation may have a small amount of leeway (eg I have seen a Koseki Tohon listed as “Family Register of X”, “Certificate of All Matters”, and I think “Certificate of All Matters: Family Register of X”). The UK asks for birth and marriage certificates. Ensuring that the Koseki Tohon is labeled as a “certificate”, which then details the events requested, might be beneficial.

7. to note that the UK consular birth registration service (
https://www.gov.uk/register-birth-abroad
) returns some great Japan-specific document requirements (not a necessary procedure, as you noted; recommended by at least one of the previous posters). It’s a shame the passport application falls short of matching this. Better questions could eliminate the instruction to supply documentation for grandparents with no bearing on British citizenship.

8. to note that the US has some excellent Japan-specific documentation guidance (buried in tabs on this page:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... Japan.html).

Such info is distilled here:
https://www.fickeymartinezlaw.com/immig ... n-purposes

Most importantly you have not given your child a middle name, he or she will glide smoothly through life in Japan whether it be at the ward office or unknown number of application forms or processes not getting a follow up phone call or rejection for an application because of the blasted middle name.

I forgot to add that (edited)

You need to provide a copy of ALL pages of the child's other (Japanese) Passport(s).

Wales4rugbyWC23 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:20 pm Most importantly you have not given your child a middle name, he or she will glide smoothly through life in Japan whether it be at the ward office or unknown number of application forms or processes not getting a follow up phone call or rejection for an application because of the blasted middle name.

Indeed, I gave the idea fleeting consideration then chucked it straight out of the window on sanity grounds.
/me glances accusingly at that Yucho account I had to set up for tedious middle-name-related reasons.

Tkydon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:39 pm (...)
If the child was born in Japan, you cannot use the Consular Birth Certificate (though you still should get one), so you will need to provide a copy of at least one of the Japanese Certificate of Delivery / Birth Notification Document / Certificate of Acceptance of Birth Notification - Shussei Shoumeisho / Shussei Todoke / Shussei Todoke Juri Shoumeisho and certified translations, and a copy of the Family Register - Koseki Tohon - and a certified translation.

(I have sent PM introduction to my Certified Translator friend in the UK. Please check your Private Messages)

Thanks for all the info, much appreciated.

Tkydon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:39 pm The details of Japanese Grand Parents are included in the Koseki Tohon. (I did not have to provide any additional information.)

Yup, double-checking on an old copy, they are there.

Tkydon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 4:39 pm And you need to provide a copy of ALL pages of the child's other (Japanese) Passport(s).

Eek. The blighter is on his second Japanese passport, that's going to be a lot of paper, though I suppose I can copy both at the same time.

kuma wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:10 pm Good questions.

I’m afraid I don’t have the recent firsthand experience you’re looking for. I intend to apply for a first UK passport for a child this year so will also be wrangling with the passport process, but due to my birthdate I don’t have the requirement of grandparents’ documents.

Two sages have already replied with informative content. So, why this reply?

1. to encourage you to post updates as this is a situation others on the forum are likely to encounter.

Thanks for all the info. I will indeed post updates, as first-hand reports of these kinds of things are always useful. Coincidentally I'd signed up here a few weeks back for the finance side of things (but not yet activated the account), but a Google search brought me here when looking into the passport issue.

kuma wrote: ↑Sun Jan 21, 2024 10:10 pm 2. to note (as you may already be aware) that the birth certificates and marriage certificate (if applicable) of your parents should be available from the General Register Office (
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-dea ... ertificate)
if the events occurred in England or Wales, and links within the above link detail the process in Scotland and Northern Ireland too. They are considered public documents and can be ordered by anyone at any time for a small fee.
(...)

Yup, ordered those already just in case. Both the GRO website and FreeBMD (where one can look up the GRO index number for the relevant certificates, it's cheaper if you do it rather than the GRO) are delightfully reminiscent of the internet of yesteryear.