RetireJapan

US citizens,

I'm sure most of you are aware of the WEP (Windfall Elimination Provision) and the potential for our Social Security benefits to be greatly cut/reduced simply by living in Japan. If you feel so inclined, there is a form email that you can send to your Senator to try and prevent a lowered retirement pension. It only takes a minute to fill out.

https://www.americansabroad.org/old/rep ... a17bdeb6b0

There was a recent announcement that WEP doesn't apply to US expats in the Japan pension system:

"The Social Security Administration (SSA) recently reviewed how Social Security benefits are calculated for recipients of Japan’s National Pension who may be subject to WEP. During this review, SSA determined that Japan’s National Pension is a residency-based pension, to which WEP does not apply. "

https://jp.usembassy.gov/services/socia ... tration%20(SSA,which%20WEP%20does%20not%20apply.

Interesting. I just talked to someone from the SSA at the tokyo embassy. I'm (finally) applying for benefits.

Since my SS earnings are quite low (maybe $14,000 lifetime total) I won't get much, and only due to totalization, since I also don't have 40 quarters/10years.

The contact person did quote a figure that is at least more than I thought it would be, so I'm glad I was urged to follow thru on this. One part of the interview was about other pensions I might be receiving, and while I did specify what I was getting, I'm sure this person knew already, since the application for this went thru the local pension office, and they probably sent along my local pension data/info (necessary for totalization, which was never at issue). They did say that I was not eligible for Medicare--no loss there, since I'm better off in japan.

But when stating my benefit, the person didn't mention the WEP, so maybe I'll ask about this later (I'm supposed to get something in a couple weeks with a chance to review/confirm various details, and there'll be a chance for questions then). I chose to get a deposit here, so the yen-equivalent amount will go into my local bank, which should come as a domestic transfer.

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I do understand (and very much agree with) the rationale for the WEP. I have a sister who is getting an illinois state teacher pension (a system which is separate from social security), which is very generous. Her pension is something like $100k/yr (even tho illinois is otherwise broke and near bankrupt). Most police and fire departments have their own pension systems, which are even more generous. Add in military and federal government jobs. And besides the good payouts, retirement for those professions can come much earlier than the 'normal' retirement age for SS--which means that these people could work other jobs long enough to technically qualify for social security benefits.

My understanding is that nenkin does not trigger WEP.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:21 am My understanding is that nenkin does not trigger WEP.

Good to hear that.

TokyoWart wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:57 pm There was a recent announcement that WEP doesn't apply to US expats in the Japan pension system:

"The Social Security Administration (SSA) recently reviewed how Social Security benefits are calculated for recipients of Japan’s National Pension who may be subject to WEP. During this review, SSA determined that Japan’s National Pension is a residency-based pension, to which WEP does not apply. "

https://jp.usembassy.gov/services/socia ... tration%20(SSA,which%20WEP%20does%20not%20apply.

This is good info. I was not aware of this. Thanks.

captainspoke wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 11:04 pm Interesting. I just talked to someone from the SSA at the tokyo embassy. I'm (finally) applying for benefits.


But when stating my benefit, the person didn't mention the WEP, so maybe I'll ask about this later (I'm supposed to get something in a couple weeks with a chance to review/confirm various details, and there'll be a chance for questions then). I chose to get a deposit here, so the yen-equivalent amount will go into my local bank, which should come as a domestic transfer.

*

Please keep us posted on what you find out.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:21 am My understanding is that nenkin does not trigger WEP.

Of course I'll be asking to confirm this, ...but just kokumin, or that and (in my case) shigakukyosai?

captainspoke wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:12 am

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:21 am My understanding is that nenkin does not trigger WEP.

Of course I'll be asking to confirm this, ...but just kokumin, or that and (in my case) shigakukyosai?

I believe it is both, but please let us know if that is not correct according to the embassy.

captainspoke wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:12 am

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:21 am My understanding is that nenkin does not trigger WEP.

Of course I'll be asking to confirm this, ...but just kokumin, or that and (in my case) shigakukyosai?

I'm also very interested in what you find when you actually apply. Please do share it.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:14 am

captainspoke wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:12 am

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:21 am My understanding is that nenkin does not trigger WEP.

Of course I'll be asking to confirm this, ...but just kokumin, or that and (in my case) shigakukyosai?

I believe it is both, but please let us know if that is not correct according to the embassy.

Treatment of the National Pension (国民年金) and EPI (厚生年金, which encompasses Shigakukyosai) with respect to WEP is different, as was noted in the forum back in February. The relevant SSA page (scroll down to the section on Japan), explicitly states that WEP applies to EPI, although not to Category 3 pensions received by dependents of company employees.

A theoretical argument exists for exempting the Basic Pension portion of EPI benefits from WEP, but that determination does not appear to have been made by the SSA (perhaps captainspoke will be able to get something straight from the horse's mouth).

ClearAsMud wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 11:30 pm

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:14 am

captainspoke wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:12 am

Of course I'll be asking to confirm this, ...but just kokumin, or that and (in my case) shigakukyosai?

I believe it is both, but please let us know if that is not correct according to the embassy.

Treatment of the National Pension (国民年金) and EPI (厚生年金, which encompasses Shigakukyosai) with respect to WEP is different, as was noted in the forum back in February. The relevant SSA page (scroll down to the section on Japan), explicitly states that WEP applies to EPI, although not to Category 3 pensions received by dependents of company employees.

A theoretical argument exists for exempting the Basic Pension portion of EPI benefits from WEP, but that determination does not appear to have been made by the SSA (perhaps captainspoke will be able to get something straight from the horse's mouth).

Thanks for the correction! Noted for future reference.