RetireJapan

Can anyone clear this up for me?
I just enrolled in Kokumin Kenko Hoken after being cast out of work at 65. The eye-watering amount of monthly premiums is over Y43,000 (considering I am jobless), plus the over Y12,000 for Kaigo Hoken. I did a very late tax return last week, including registering a further dependent (MIL). I thought that this would mean my Kokumin Kenko Hoken payments will eventually be adjusted down to reflect my actual lower income for the previous tax year. But according to the person on the desk at the ward office, my adjusted tax return (basically now zero tax) will not lower the Kokumin Kenko Hoken due.

I am very surprised. Does this mean Kokumin Kenko Hoken is based on gross income without taking into consideration your dependents allowance? Has the official made a mistake? Am I in for a pleasant surprise a few months up the road once the tax return data filters through to the ward office?
It just seems very counter-intuitive.

Comments from anyone with concrete experience of this would be very helpful.

This has come up before, and I just answered a similar question yesterday.

The Kokumin Kenkou Hoken premiums are based on your taxable income in the previous tax year, so your last year of employment, premiums set every May following completion of Tax Season, Kakutei Shinkoku, March/April, reported through from National Tax Agency to the Municipal Tax Offices...h

I see you read the other thread with the information and links I provided.

A couple of points:
The Kokumin Kenkou Hoken premiums are a little more expensive, but you only pay Kokumin Kenkou Hoken premiums 10 months of the year... April and May are payment free.
You are close to the Household Maximum of 50,000 per month for 10 months... But we have just started the year, so you will see your premiums drop in June next year, based on your income for this tax year (2023).

If you just filed an amendment to your Kakuteishinkoku for 2022, then your Taxable Income would be reduced by just 380,000 for 2022. It will take time to filter through the system, from the National Tax Agency where you filed the Kakutei-Shinkoku to the Municipal Tax Office, or you may have to go and file an amendment at the Municipal Tax Office for you Ward/City/Town/Villiage...

The Calculation of the Health Insurance Premiums is given in the Links I posted in the other thread; Per Capita piece and Household Income related piece.

https://www.city.shibuya.tokyo.jp.e.mu. ... yo_26.html

If your premiums are so high, I doubt an additional dependent allowance will make much of a dent anyway.

Also, be aware that your Residents' Taxes are also based on last tax year's income (2022), payable from July 2023 to June 2024, so if you have not received notification yet, you will receive payment slips in the mail for the 2022 Residents' Taxes.
If you were still in employment, the taxes would be paid out of payroll over 12 installments. As you are no longer in employment, they will send you payment slips for either a single total payment or the outstanding payments in four quarterly three-month payments... (maybe one for one or two months and then three for three months each), payable end of July, Oct, Jan and Apr.

You should see your Kokumin Kenko Hoken and Residents' Taxes reduce significantly from June 2024, based on your lower level of total taxable income in 2023...

Thanks for the detailed reply. That pretty much confirms what I thought.

Could you possibly explain what you meant by "The Calculation of the Health Insurance Premiums is given in the Links I posted in the other thread; Per Capita piece and Household Income related piece."?

My current worry is how to survive through to next June on basically income. I really don't want to start claiming national pension yet, as I was hoping to increase it a little by deferring payment, so claiming it now damages my long term plan. The depressing realisation is that in this brutal first year, where my previous salary brings down on me massive insurance, kaigo hoken and residence tax bills, that for myself and my partner, 28 years of kosei nenkin and kokumin nenkin aren't even enough to cover my health insurance, kaigo hoken and residence tax, never mind indulgences like housing and food. I understand that even if I were to start claiming my pension, these would all be withheld at source, and on top of that I would get billed for the unpaid amount, just to add insult to injury.

The system is seriously dysfunctional - they give with one hand, but immediately take it back with the other. On the other hand, if I were to claim Seikatsu Hogo (ie benefits), I would be receiving double this, and also get massive exemptions on the health insurance and residence tax bills.

jane doe wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:59 am Can anyone clear this up for me?
I just enrolled in Kokumin Kenko Hoken after being cast out of work at 65. The eye-watering amount of monthly premiums is over Y43,000 (considering I am jobless), plus the over Y12,000 for Kaigo Hoken. I did a very late tax return last week, including registering a further dependent (MIL). I thought that this would mean my Kokumin Kenko Hoken payments will eventually be adjusted down to reflect my actual lower income for the previous tax year. But according to the person on the desk at the ward office, my adjusted tax return (basically now zero tax) will not lower the Kokumin Kenko Hoken due.

I am very surprised. Does this mean Kokumin Kenko Hoken is based on gross income without taking into consideration your dependents allowance? Has the official made a mistake? Am I in for a pleasant surprise a few months up the road once the tax return data filters through to the ward office?
It just seems very counter-intuitive.

Comments from anyone with concrete experience of this would be very helpful.

My understanding is that, as you suggest, deductions for dependents apply for income taxation purposes (both national and local), but not for your health insurance premiums.

The only evidence of this which a quick google search threw up was from 2013 in one municipality but I think it is the case:

https://www.city.yokohama.lg.jp/naka/na ... 181108.pdf

jane doe wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:15 am Thanks for the detailed reply. That pretty much confirms what I thought.

Could you possibly explain what you meant by "The Calculation of the Health Insurance Premiums is given in the Links I posted in the other thread; Per Capita piece and Household Income related piece."?

My current worry is how to survive through to next June on basically income. I really don't want to start claiming national pension yet, as I was hoping to increase it a little by deferring payment, so claiming it now damages my long term plan. The depressing realisation is that in this brutal first year, where my previous salary brings down on me massive insurance, kaigo hoken and residence tax bills, that for myself and my partner, 28 years of kosei nenkin and kokumin nenkin aren't even enough to cover my health insurance, kaigo hoken and residence tax, never mind indulgences like housing and food. I understand that even if I were to start claiming my pension, these would all be withheld at source, and on top of that I would get billed for the unpaid amount, just to add insult to injury.

The system is seriously dysfunctional - they give with one hand, but immediately take it back with the other. On the other hand, if I were to claim Seikatsu Hogo (ie benefits), I would be receiving double this, and also get massive exemptions on the health insurance and residence tax bills.

I hear and understand your situation. It is unfortunate that no-one is telling anyone this important information to allow them to prepare for the inevitable post-employment 'adjustment period', or post-leaving-Japan Residents' Tax bill...

jane doe wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:59 am...
I just enrolled in Kokumin Kenko Hoken after being cast out of work at 65. ...

Perhaps water under the bridge at this point, but wasn't there an option to continue with your previous insurance system, the one you were enrolled in at work? I think most folks continue using what they had for at least a year (sometimes two).

captainspoke wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2023 8:35 pm

jane doe wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 5:59 am...
I just enrolled in Kokumin Kenko Hoken after being cast out of work at 65. ...

Perhaps water under the bridge at this point, but wasn't there an option to continue with your previous insurance system, the one you were enrolled in at work? I think most folks continue using what they had for at least a year (sometimes two).

I think in a parallel thread the OP said that the ex-employer didn't tell her in time, and she missed the deadline, and the provider then wouldn't allow her to re-register.

Still, the premiums would not be that dissimilar in the first year, based on the final employment income.

Tkydon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 2:24 am in a parallel thread

viewtopic.php?p=31486#p31486

Got it, ...and I even posted there.