RetireJapan

Does anyone know anything on these, or have experience of trying to get credits on gaps in your NI contribution record?

I always thought you got credits when in full-time education, so that's another 4 year gap in my record. Those are now lost, right? They were way before 2006, so they're not in the time frame for making up now, are they? I am a bit confused, because I read this on another thread:

"See if your entitled to any pay NI credit years."

It seems like years when you are full-time at school count as fully paid up, (or did in my case, though not since 2011 apparently) but university doesn't, is that it?

Also, it's a bit unclear about what a "government-approved course" counts as. I wasn't sent from the JobCentre, but did one year teacher training. That at least should count shouldn't it, even if time during a degree course doesn't?

Also, about getting credits while claiming "Jobseeker's Allowance", I think that might be a relatively recent phrase. When I was unemployed it was probably called something else. I just called it the dole. I was straight out of university, so it wasn't unemployment benefit. But I thought you automatically got credits if you were signing on in that situation, but those years show on my record as not having enough credits.

A final one. I worked for a dodgy language school in Italy that deducted national insurance equivalent from my pay, but apparently didn't pay it, or if it did pay the Italian INPS, this information didn't make it back to the UK. So that's another empty year. Does anyone have experience of getting that recognised, or indeed, how on earth I would go about tracking it within another country's system, let alone one like Italy?

Can anyone shine a light on any of these, or share experience? I tried searching through that wiki on NICs, but couldn't turn up anything on these specific points.

MoneySavingExpert advocates looking to plug any gaps via credits, as you're looking into:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savin ... ributions/

jane doe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:34 am I always thought you got credits when in full-time education, so that's another 4 year gap in my record. Those are now lost, right? They were way before 2006, so they're not in the time frame for making up now, are they? I am a bit confused, because I read this on another thread:

"See if your entitled to any pay NI credit years."

It seems like years when you are full-time at school count as fully paid up, (or did in my case, though not since 2011 apparently) but university doesn't, is that it?

Some people received 'starting credits' for the tax years in which they turned 16, 17 and 18. This was help from the government to protect the benefits of people who chose to remain in education beyond compulsory school age.

The above is the former policy in a nutshell. University years are not ordinarily covered (excepting perhaps for child geniuses who received their starting credits in uni).

Former Minister for Pensions, Steve Webb, explains here:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pen ... rsity.html

The former policy and its rationale are explained here:

Since April 1975, NI contributions have been credited to people for the tax year in which they reach age 16 and the following two tax years in order to protect their future basic State Pension entitlement and Bereavement Benefits for a spouse or civil partner (“Starting Credits”). The policy intention behind the credits was to ensure that young people staying on in education beyond the minimum school leaving age did not lose future benefit entitlement as a result. There is no requirement for the individual to be in the UK at the relevant age. This was primarily to ensure that young people being educated outside the UK were not penalised.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... hanges.pdf

And the NI Manual's section on starting credits is here: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... l/nim41210

jane doe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:34 am Also, it's a bit unclear about what a "government-approved course" counts as. I wasn't sent from the JobCentre, but did one year teacher training. That at least should count shouldn't it, even if time during a degree course doesn't?

I don't feel qualified to comment on what *should* and *shouldn't* count... and furthermore am struggling to find detailed info on what *does* and *doesn't* count...

The gov.uk guide gives the basic rules and a postal method for applying for credits for training courses:
https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-credits

The NI Manual also gives the basic rules:
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... l/nim41220

Neither of these give lists or examples of eligible training courses. I *suspect* (most) teacher training is not included, and is instead classified as 'higher education'. (The letter-writer Steve Webb addressed in the earlier article had a PGCE; and the former minister did not intervene to say but but, you should apply for credits for that year!)

*Perhaps* the type of free courses that some people are eligible for here, and any preceding schemes, would be eligible:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/free-courses-for-jobs
These are Level 3 courses; PGCE (just one teacher training example) is Level 7.

Were teacher training courses eligible for NI credits, I would have expected a much higher footprint of internet results when searching for things such as 'teacher training NI credits'.

In any case, even if the training were eligible, and you applied for and received credits, be warned that the credits *might not* actually boost your pension! That sounds counterintuitive... but is because of the concept of qualifying years. Even with credits, your NI record pre- and post-course might be key as to whether the relevant tax year(s) become qualifying years.

jane doe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:34 am Also, about getting credits while claiming "Jobseeker's Allowance", I think that might be a relatively recent phrase. When I was unemployed it was probably called something else. I just called it the dole. I was straight out of university, so it wasn't unemployment benefit. But I thought you automatically got credits if you were signing on in that situation, but those years show on my record as not having enough credits.

Might be related to the above answer. Registered unemployment should have resulted in automatic credits for the period in question. If straight out of uni, it is likely that a period of no NI contributions (uni) preceded the period of credits. Then, the period after the credits may not have resulted in sufficient contributions to count as a qualifying year.

There's some info on qualifying years in the NI Manual... but it's not the most readable:
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... l/nim25109

jane doe wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:34 am A final one. I worked for a dodgy language school in Italy that deducted national insurance equivalent from my pay, but apparently didn't pay it, or if it did pay the Italian INPS, this information didn't make it back to the UK. So that's another empty year. Does anyone have experience of getting that recognised, or indeed, how on earth I would go about tracking it within another country's system, let alone one like Italy?

That sounds a lot to unravel. I rate your chances of getting future years squared off as higher than addressing that period.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown. My self-rating is about the same as yours, and I've been working on the basis that all the years I mention above are down the tubes, and I never bothered to check them before. But it's always worth back-checking to make sure, isn't it? Every little helps.

Anyway, if any useful nuggets come out of this in my future dealings with HMRC, something I really look forward to , I will share it on here.

The following edits have been made to the wiki to improve the content surrounding NI credits:

1. initial mention of NI credits now links to the gov.uk guide to NI credits, rather than the less readable NI manual:

Qualifying years are tax years when sufficient contributions and/or credits have been made, via any combination of the below:

1. national insurance contributions made via employment or self employment (earnings or profit need to be above a threshold, so part-time employment may not satisfy this condition)
2. national insurance credits, eg when claiming benefits, acting as a carer, undertaking jury service, etc. Some individuals will have received starting credits automatically for the years in which they turned 16, 17 and 18.
3. voluntary national insurance contributions

2. Following short paragraph added in the overview:

You can find out further information about national insurance credits via the gov.uk guide to national insurance credits and the NI Manual section on national insurance credits. Credits are automatically applied in many circumstances, but there are some circumstances in which an application is necessary, and full details can be found in the above gov.uk guide.

3. "Apply for National Insurance credits" entry now present in the summary table of pension-related actions, including link, phone number and the main postal address for *most* types of manual NI credit applications.

These changes are mainly signposting to the gov.uk guide, the relevant section of the NI Manual and the relevant phone number for assistance (in that order). The 'front and centre' mention of and link to eligibility for 'starting credits' remains in place.