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Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:34 pm
by smalldog
I’m looking to diversity with more property/real estate exposure but can’t bring myself to engage with all the slimy real estate agents, BS of hanko stamping, bank teeth sucking, scrivener wrangling etc. etc.
The US company Fundrise seems a great option for me but they don’t allow non U.S. based investors. Has anyone come across a Japanese company offering the same/similar service pls? If so would be great to hear experiences with same.
I know RIET’s can act as a proxy in this space but Fundrise’s product seems a lot more tangible and seems a perfect middle ground in between actually buying another house and just DCA into a RIET.
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 1:08 am
by TokyoBoglehead
smalldog wrote: ↑Fri Jan 20, 2023 11:34 pm
I’m looking to diversity with more property/real estate exposure but can’t bring myself to engage with all the slimy real estate agents, BS of hanko stamping, bank teeth sucking, scrivener wrangling etc. etc.
The US company Fundrise seems a great option for me but they don’t allow non U.S. based investors. Has anyone come across a Japanese company offering the same/similar service pls? If so would be great to hear experiences with same.
I know RIET’s can act as a proxy in this space but Fundrise’s product seems a lot more tangible and seems a perfect middle ground in between actually buying another house and just DCA into a RIET.
So you're specifically looking for real estate syndications or private equity funds?
I'm not sure what you mean by ta tangible though.
You're looking for more risk to increase potential profit and happy to invest in a less liquid asset?
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:05 pm
by mighty58
I echo the questions about what it is you're really looking for here. "more tanglible than a REIT" means what exactly? If I were to guess I imagine you mean they do a better job publicizing the specific properties in the fund, whereas a REIT index simply has too many to do that? (smaller REITs do certainly publish information about the properties in their portfolio, of course).
And for that benefit, you will likely get less diversification, less liquidity, and pay a bit more in fees when compared to a REIT. Oh, but you "get" an active fund manager's promise to beat the market because he knows what he's doing.
Not quite apples-for-apples as it's more specific-property related, but this offering might be something that interests you (note: not an endorsement or recommendation):
https://www.minnadeooyasan.com
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 12:03 am
by AreTheyTheLemmings?
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 2:45 am
by northSaver
mighty58 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 22, 2023 1:05 pm
Not quite apples-for-apples as it's more specific-property related, but this offering might be something that interests you (note: not an endorsement or recommendation):
https://www.minnadeooyasan.com
This company looks quite interesting, as a side investment and not an all-in thing, but it's a bit worrying that the fees don't seem to be clearly explained on the website. There is a 3% figure mentioned here and there, but is that applied to the annual yields of 6 to 7%, or to something else? I get the impression that the stated yields are paid after fees, not before. Maybe it's a "lost in translation" thing and is clear in Japanese
We already have about 40% of our portfolio tied up in investment property which we manage ourselves, so it isn't really for us. But for someone looking to invest in physical property without the considerable hassle of doing it all themselves, a company like this might be worth a shot.
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:48 am
by zeroshiki
I picked out a random one and the fee is 3% of your initial investment(!) and then 3% of all dividends.
Ask yourself, would you invest in a fund with a management fee of 3%?
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:51 am
by northSaver
3% of the initial investment as well as 3% of dividends? Yeah, that's pretty steep.
zeroshiki wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:48 am
Ask yourself, would you invest in a fund with a management fee of 3%?
That's a good question. While I like a low-cost fund as much as anyone, I'd have to work out just how good (or bad) this investment was. How likely is it to pay 7% per year over five years, and how likely is it to return all of your initial investment (less the fee) after five years? Then I would compare to another fund that I could park the yen in for five years, for example a low-cost stock index tracker. How likely is that to return 7% per year over the next five years? Then I would compare total ROIs for both (or more) funds, based on various yields and net of fees, and decide which one looks more attractive.
So yeah, a high fee doesn't necessarily put me off. Purchasing a building myself would cost more than 3% in fees, and having it managed by someone would cost more than 3% per year. Not to mention all the hassle involved. In that respect 3% is not too high.
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:03 am
by TokyoBoglehead
northSaver wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:51 am
3% of the initial investment as well as 3% of dividends? Yeah, that's pretty steep.
zeroshiki wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 3:48 am
Ask yourself, would you invest in a fund with a management fee of 3%?
That's a good question. While I like a low-cost fund as much as anyone, I'd have to work out just how good (or bad) this investment was. How likely is it to pay 7% per year over five years, and how likely is it to return all of your initial investment (less the fee) after five years? Then I would compare to another fund that I could park the yen in for five years, for example a low-cost stock index tracker. How likely is that to return 7% per year over the next five years? Then I would compare total ROIs for both (or more) funds, based on various yields and net of fees, and decide which one looks more attractive.
So yeah, a high fee doesn't necessarily put me off. Purchasing a building myself would cost more than 3% in fees, and having it managed by someone would cost more than 3% per year. Not to mention all the hassle involved. In that respect 3% is not too high.
My goodness though why not a REIT? REIT trusts here are such a good deal as the solve the dividend/tax issue that many ETfs face..
There are a large variety.
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:27 am
by sutebayashi
Yeah, eMAXIS have a range of REIT toshins that have somewhat low fees. I think the eMAXIS slim developed markets one I have has an annual fee under 0.7%.
I had thought about buying some Japanese real estate investment in the past, but toshins helped invalidate that thought from my mind.
Re: Fundrise Japan Version?
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 9:21 am
by TokyoBoglehead
sutebayashi wrote: ↑Mon Jan 23, 2023 8:27 am
Yeah, eMAXIS have a range of REIT toshins that have somewhat low fees. I think the eMAXIS slim developed markets one I have has an annual fee under 0.7%.
I had thought about buying some Japanese real estate investment in the past, but toshins helped invalidate that thought from my mind.
信託報酬率（年率/税込）
0.22%以内 https://emaxis.jp/fund/253674.html
ETFS -
https://www.jpx.co.jp/english/equities/ ... 01-07.html