RetireJapan

As many people here already know, the "Windfall Elimination Provision" or WEP unfairly penalizes US expats for having a foreign pension. There are currently a couple of bills before Congress that would totally repeal the WEP. You can follow the progress of these bills in the "Repeal the Windfall Elimination Provision & GPO"** Facebook group which has a lot of useful information and updates.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1315898065249754/

** Note the GPO = Government Pension Offset which is a different thing not necessarily impacting US expats.

Thanks for the link Teflon!

Assuming this is not repealed, I wonder if we could organize an army of angry Americans (a growing and popular demographic) negatively impacted (or likely to be negatively impacted) by WEP to bring our case to the SSA and/or a lawyer willing to pursue our interests.

I think the chance of WEP repeal anytime soon is very low. WEP helps extend the life of the SS fund and legislation which hurts SS is difficult to pass (not to mention that no one seems to care about the problems of expats).

TokyoWart wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:18 pm I think the chance of WEP repeal anytime soon is very low. WEP helps extend the life of the SS fund and legislation which hurts SS is difficult to pass (not to mention that no one seems to care about the problems of expats).

It's difficult to predict what will happen. The legislation was aimed at civil servants (teachers, police, fire fighters, etc) and they are an influential voting block backed by powerful unions and organizations. Also, the law was passed in 1983 so it means that all the baby boomers retiring now are in for a rude awakening and they're not happy.

As far as expats go, you are correct. We are just collateral damage with no real political power but at least we can ride on the coattails of the angry civil servants and support them in whatever way we can.

Teflon wrote:
It's difficult to predict what will happen. The legislation was aimed at civil servants (teachers, police, fire fighters, etc) and they are an influential voting block backed by powerful unions and organizations. Also, the law was passed in 1983 so it means that all the baby boomers retiring now are in for a rude awakening and they're not happy.

Good points. I would be delighted to be wrong in my pessimism.

TokyoWart wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 1:18 pm I think the chance of WEP repeal anytime soon is very low.

Which would then suggest organizing might be helpful.

There is already precedent of excluding specific pension schemes from a case brought by an Israeli pensioner: https://www.ssa.gov/greenberg/

Anyone interested in joining a group to be represented in a lawsuit? Ideal project for retirees with time to devote to increasing their pension payout.

Foremost wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 12:15 am There is already precedent of excluding specific pension schemes from a case brought by an Israeli pensioner: https://www.ssa.gov/greenberg/
Anyone interested in joining a group to be represented in a lawsuit? Ideal project for retirees with time to devote to increasing their pension payout.

I found a recent article posted on the web site of a company that specializes in international tax services which argues that Japanese Nenkin should also be exempt from the WEP. They cite the Israeli case as precedent for this:
https://www.cdhcpa.com/receiving-japans ... igger-wep/

Seems they have connections with various organizations in Japan that are fighting for the rights of Japanese citizens who worked in the US and are also subject to the WEP. Looks promising!

https://readyfor.jp/projects/45019nenkin
https://nenkinsupportcenter.org/

Teflon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 9:17 am
I found a recent article posted on the web site of a company that specializes in international tax services which argues that Japanese Nenkin should also be exempt from the WEP. They cite the Israeli case as precedent for this:
https://www.cdhcpa.com/receiving-japans ... igger-wep/

Seems they have connections with various organizations in Japan that are fighting for the rights of Japanese citizens who worked in the US and are also subject to the WEP. Looks promising!

https://readyfor.jp/projects/45019nenkin
https://nenkinsupportcenter.org/

I'm familiar with Koh Fujimoto, a US CPA out of Illinois doing videos on YouTube. After some deeper diving, it became moot for most people. When you don't have enough credits to qualify for either system on its own, you can claim based on U.S. Japan Socialization Totalization Agreement to qualify. If you must use the Totalization agreement to qualify, you no longer are subject to WEP. But if you have to use Totalization agreement to qualify for U.S. Social Security (having less than 10 years), the calculation of benefits using the totalization agreement ends up weighing things down enough anyway even without the WEP. If the situation is in reverse where you have very little Japanese pension credit but have 20+ years in U.S. Social Security, there's no WEP anyway. So it's the weird in-between situation where you had at least 10 years in each but less than 20 years on U.S. Social Security _and_ you were only in Kokumin Nenkin on the Japanese side that his argument has any value.

The argument that Fujimoto made is a valid one that Kokumin Nenkin is based only on residency and being age 20-60 in Japan and not based on work at all. So if you have only contributed to Kokumin Nenkin in Japan, you should not be subject to WEP but the documents in U.S. Social Security don't exempt Japanese pension at all.

On the other hand, if you were enrolled in Kosei Nenkin at any point, then that pension is linked to employment so you can be subject to WEP and I don't think Fujimoto argued to the contrary for those individuals.