RetireJapan

Hi all,

Just last week I was rejected for permanent residency, which was slightly surprising considering I have a Japanese wife of 7 years and have been in Japan for a long time, anyway I was wondering if anyone had been in the same boat and could offer some insight into what happens at the follow-up meeting at the immigration office?

I presume we just go in and they explain why it was rejected, but my wife thinks that maybe we should invite an immigration lawyer to help support us. After dealing with the folk at immigration over the past year she's of the opinion that the staff are all out to get us and that it might be better to have someone in our corner!

Any thoughts much appreciated.

I believe they will just tell you the reason. Not sure you need a lawyer at that point as I don't think it would change anything -I guess they could ask better questions?

The lawyer can help make the application process smoother, and for some people that justifies the expense.

Ideally you will get feedback on specific issues that you can address before applying again.

Good luck!

ExpatScot wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:38 am Hi all,

Just last week I was rejected for permanent residency, which was slightly surprising considering I have a Japanese wife of 7 years and have been in Japan for a long time, anyway I was wondering if anyone had been in the same boat and could offer some insight into what happens at the follow-up meeting at the immigration office?

I presume we just go in and they explain why it was rejected, but my wife thinks that maybe we should invite an immigration lawyer to help support us. After dealing with the folk at immigration over the past year she's of the opinion that the staff are all out to get us and that it might be better to have someone in our corner!

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Wow, sorry to hear that man.

I've heard it can be denied for things such as incomplete tax / nenkin records (failed to pay kokumin nenkin for example) or inability to demonstrate sufficient proof that you can generate income to support yourself here.

What is your current visa status? As a rule you're supposed to be on the longest possible status before you'll get PR, so if you're getting 1 year renewals, you'll unlikely get PR, but if you've got a 5 year spouse visa, and you've been on a spouse visa for over 3 years, you should pass that hurdle.

Immigration lawyers might be the right call first, but try and find out the rejection reason before forking out cash would be my recommendation. If they dinged you on a technicality (not on the longest visa status) you'll basically be paying an expensive lawyer to tell you 'it says apply again in 3 years'

I was on a three year spouse visa and was approved, so don’t think a five year one is necessary unless they have changed the rules since April.

I agree with going to the meeting unlawyered. Once you know the reason, that would be time to consider that IMO. Did they ask for any additional documentation/clarification during the process or just reject with no prior contact?

JapaneseMike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:49 am

ExpatScot wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:38 am Hi all,

Just last week I was rejected for permanent residency, which was slightly surprising considering I have a Japanese wife of 7 years and have been in Japan for a long time, anyway I was wondering if anyone had been in the same boat and could offer some insight into what happens at the follow-up meeting at the immigration office?

I presume we just go in and they explain why it was rejected, but my wife thinks that maybe we should invite an immigration lawyer to help support us. After dealing with the folk at immigration over the past year she's of the opinion that the staff are all out to get us and that it might be better to have someone in our corner!

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Wow, sorry to hear that man.

I've heard it can be denied for things such as incomplete tax / nenkin records (failed to pay kokumin nenkin for example) or inability to demonstrate sufficient proof that you can generate income to support yourself here.

What is your current visa status? As a rule you're supposed to be on the longest possible status before you'll get PR, so if you're getting 1 year renewals, you'll unlikely get PR, but if you've got a 5 year spouse visa, and you've been on a spouse visa for over 3 years, you should pass that hurdle.

Immigration lawyers might be the right call first, but try and find out the rejection reason before forking out cash would be my recommendation. If they dinged you on a technicality (not on the longest visa status) you'll basically be paying an expensive lawyer to tell you 'it says apply again in 3 years'

Well I'm on a 3-year spouse visa which I presume is okay. Who knows the reason, I've got a feeling it's probably my spotty nenkin history as I pretty much paid nothing for 10 years when I was an eikaiwa teacher, although I've been contributing to kosei nenkin for the past 6 years or so.

Anyway, my real question is whether the follow up meeting will entail anything out of the ordinary. My wife seems to think we should take some documents with us, which I don't really see the point of as they already have all our documents and it's not as if they're going to change their decision. She really is dreading interacting with the immigration staff but as far as I can see it'll be just them telling us why I was rejected.

Beaglehound wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:22 am I was on a three year spouse visa and was approved, so don’t think a five year one is necessary unless they have changed the rules since April.

I agree with going to the meeting unlawyered. Once you know the reason, that would be time to consider that IMO. Did they ask for any additional documentation/clarification during the process or just reject with no prior contact?

They just asked my wife to supply her nenkin information a few days after the application and then nothing. I guess I'll find out the reason at the meeting.

To be honest I don't really think we need a lawyer for the meeting myself, but if it keeps my wife happy it might be worth the 20,000-30,000 fee. I think she's worried that they'll give us some information which she'll miss or write down wrong which will doom our next PR application.

ExpatScot wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:22 am
My wife seems to think we should take some documents with us

I recommend you follow her instinct here, there's no such thing as having enough documents with you when dealing with Japanese bureaucracy. (Although there's still a chance that you won't have the particular documents they need)

Might be worth a drop into the nenkin office, and offer to start paying back missed nenkins, and come to the immigration meeting with that? Some might say it's over the top, but nothing wrong with backpaying the kokumin nenkin. It's not the greatest state pension in the world, but it's useful as an income floor in retirement.

Sorry to hear of the rejection. Meeting to ascertain the reason seems a good step.

As a rule you're supposed to be on the longest possible status before you'll get PR, so if you're getting 1 year renewals, you'll unlikely get PR, but if you've got a 5 year spouse visa, and you've been on a spouse visa for over 3 years, you should pass that

A correction to the above: a 3yr spouse visa is fine for a PR application (and it’s critical to have been married for 3 years, but not critical to have been on a spouse visa for 3+ years).

I think the guidelines are poorly worded on this point. The official English guidelines refer to the 'longest possible period of stay', but then the following clarification is buried towards the end:

With this guideline, applicants will be treated as "residing in Japan with the longest possible period of stay" as stated in section 1, 3 (c) if they have a period of stay of "three years."

https://www.isa.go.jp/en/publications/m ... kan50.html

Before, it was considered in the bag if you had a child.Apparently showed your marriage was for real.

JapaneseMike wrote: ↑Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:29 am Might be worth a drop into the nenkin office, and offer to start paying back missed nenkins, and come to the immigration meeting with that? Some might say it's over the top, but nothing wrong with backpaying the kokumin nenkin. It's not the greatest state pension in the world, but it's useful as an income floor in retirement.

You can only pay back the last 2 years of missed payments.

Also, sorry to add more hearsay because I don't remember the source, but I remember reading somewhere that you get one feedback session if you get rejected for PR. I'm not sure if that means one session per application, or one session ever... So it might be good to be 100% clear on the reasons, with confirmation that applying once those problems are resolved is likely to be successful.

Also, I don't think your wife's attitude that they're out to get you is useful. She may be right, who knows, but more likely they're just bureaucrats doing their job, which is checking you against a bunch of criteria. It's more about making sure they've followed the rules, and that you've satisfied the criteria. Your job is to make it easy for them to satisfy themselves that you fulfil the requirements, and that they are making the right decision. Where a lawyer could be helpful is knowing the magic words or documents that make things easier for them - or from stopping you putting your foot in your mouth.