RetireJapan

A few of the people on the forum may already have Japanese nationality. Others may have children who are dual nationals or may be over 22 and faced the question about whether to choose a single nationality.

There is definitely a lot of gray area in this question, and although I have many friends with children over 22, I can't say any of their kids have formally giving up the "other" nationality.

People born with dual nationality do not, in practice, need to give it up. They need to 'choose' Japanese nationality before turning 22, and then can just carry on without any consequences (unless they go into politics, ie see Renho).

This is very different from people who acquire a second nationality later in life. They are treated very strictly by the government, and the 'renounce other nationalities' is enforced. So it is vital not to mix them up when discussing this topic.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:23 am People born with dual nationality do not, in practice, need to give it up. They need to 'choose' Japanese nationality before turning 22, and then can just carry on without any consequences (unless they go into politics, ie see Renho).

This is very different from people who acquire a second nationality later in life. They are treated very strictly by the government, and the 'renounce other nationalities' is enforced. So it is vital not to mix them up when discussing this topic.

Good point. The only real dual nationals (Jpn+ other) are those born Japanese.

Working for the government/military would probably require formal renunciation as well.

However, I suspect quite a few people who are born Japanese and move abroad then acquire a second nationality and never tell the Japanese government. I recently met a Japanese man in his 50s who now has both US and Japanese passports.

Working for the government/military would probably require formal renunciation as well.

I don't know about the situation in Japan's military but I was surprised to learn that something close to 40,000 of the US military are not US citizens. It's considered one path to citizenship and while there may be some jobs off-limits to non-citizens one doesn't need to be a citizen to serve in the US military.

TJKansai wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:28 am However, I suspect quite a few people who are born Japanese and move abroad then acquire a second nationality and never tell the Japanese government. I recently met a Japanese man in his 50s who now has both US and Japanese passports.

This is risky, because according to the law, you cease to become a Japanese citizen when voluntarily acquiring another citizenship, whether you announce it or not. So your 50s man may have been born Japanese, but he's not legally Japanese if he chose US citizenship himself.

adamu wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:31 am

TJKansai wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:28 am However, I suspect quite a few people who are born Japanese and move abroad then acquire a second nationality and never tell the Japanese government. I recently met a Japanese man in his 50s who now has both US and Japanese passports.

This is risky, because according to the law, you cease to become a Japanese citizen when voluntarily acquiring another citizenship, whether you announce it or not. So your 50s man may have been born Japanese, but he's not legally Japanese if he chose US citizenship himself.

From the way he was talking he wasn't worried about it. I have known other businessmen as well who converted visa to green cards to passports and kept the Japanese citizenship.

TJKansai wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:44 am From the way he was talking he wasn't worried about it. I have known other businessmen as well who converted visa to green cards to passports and kept the Japanese citizenship.

Very easy to get caught, as you don't have a visa or visible way of living/working in the US legally. That's what those lawsuits last year were about: people who live in, say, Switzerland who needed to become Swiss citizens for work, but didn't want to lose their Japanese nationality.

They lost the court case though.

I have personal experience with this, being born a dual national myself (Japanese mother/gaijin father). And let me tell you, the extent to which you can exercise your rights really depends on where you are a legal resident, geographically speaking. Let me illustrate what I mean with a few family examples:

• Case 1 (myself): I am registered under two different names... the Japanese me is under "mother's maiden name/middle name" in the koseki-tohon, while the gaijin me is the normal first name/middle name/father's last name. So there are two differently named entities. At 22, I just happened to be in Japan when a call came to my maternal grandmother's house from the Ministry of Justice, asking me to choose. I went in to discuss it, asked what was required if I wanted to retain Japanese citizenship, and they said I needed to formally renounce my other citizenship. I had zero intention of renouncing my other citizenship, so I said I would think about it, left, and simply never got back to them. As I never officially chose, both identities live on. As I am physically in Japan right now, and living here as a foreign national, I cannot exercise anything to do with my Japanese nationality without formalizing everything. I can't apply for a passport, I can't attempt to vote, I even had trouble registering my marriage in Japan as a gaijin (long story). Exercising anything would entail declaring that the Japanese me is a resident of Japan, which would open up a pandora's box of potential problems, and I have no desire to jeopardize my pensions or pay double residency taxes or anything else.
• Case 2 (my sibilngs): both residents of gaikoku-land as dual-nationals, they simply presented a copy of their koseki-tohon at the local Japanese Consulate and received their Japanese passports, with, and this is the kicker, zero questions or probing about other nationalities they hold, even though it's glaringly obvious that they do have dual nationality because the country I'm from grants it if you're born on the land.
• Case 3 (my mother): born a Japanese national, has lived abroad most of her adult life. Took the citizenship of my home country when she was in her 40's or 50's. Never bothered to inform the Japanese side she obtained it, so she just continues to hold both.

mighty58 wrote: ↑Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:38 am I have personal experience with this, being born a dual national myse

• Case 1 (myself): I am registered under two different names... As I am physically in Japan right now, and living here as a foreign national, I cannot exercise anything to do with my Japanese nationality without formalizing everything. I can't apply for a passport, I can't attempt to vote, I even had trouble registering my marriage in Japan as a gaijin (long story).
• Case 2 (my sibilngs): both residents of gaikoku-land as dual-nationals,
• Case 3 (my mother): born a Japanese national, has lived abroad most of her adult life. Took the citizenship of my home country when she was in her 40's or 50's. Never bothered to inform the Japanese side she obtained it, so she just continues to hold both.

Case 2 and 3 sound like what I would expect. Case 1 is hard to believe, allowing you to live here as a non-Japanese even though you are?

I have been told it is actually illegal for dual nationals (US+ other) to enter the US without using their US passport.I looked into it because getting a US passport for a child is a real pain: both parents must visit the consulate, on a weekday, with the child in hand.

TJKansai wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 5:09 am Case 1 is hard to believe, allowing you to live here as a non-Japanese even though you are?

I always wanted to live an unbelievable life, but sliding between the lines of nationality rules was never part of my dreams as a kid