RetireJapan

Hello,

Disclaimer:
I have never invested before, so I am a complete novice with no knowledge.
I am a US citizen.

Question:
I recently saw that Rakuten has two new services:
楽天ポイント運用 Rakuten Point Unyo (management)
楽天ポイント投資 Rakuten Point Toshi (investment)

US citizens are not allowed to use robo-advisors, are either of these programs Robo-advisors?

Has anyone used these and what are your impressions?

hirami wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:10 am Hello,

Disclaimer:
I have never invested before, so I am a complete novice with no knowledge.
I am a US citizen.

Question:
I recently saw that Rakuten has two new services:
楽天ポイント運用 Rakuten Point Unyo (management)
楽天ポイント投資 Rakuten Point Toshi (investment)

US citizens are not allowed to use robo-advisors, are either of these programs Robo-advisors?

Has anyone used these and what are your impressions?

I (a) receive points for having trust funds with Rakuten, and (b) I receive points for funding trust with my Rakuten credit card.

I then either (a) buy mutual funds with these points or (b) foolishly buy Ether/Bitcoin with these points in the Rakuten wallet app.

It is a pretty sweet deal. Especially the 1point for 100 yen (500 point-max) for funding trusts with a CC.

...........

https://point.rakuten.co.jp/doc/invest/ ... o_panda_pc
https://diamond.jp/articles/-/179056

サービス選びでは、さらに「商品」もチェックしたい。注意点は、「ポイント運用型」で選べるのは、投資信託や株式そのものではないということ。用意されているのは、金融商品の価額に連動してポイントが増減する「運用コース」。金融商品を買いたいなら、「現金運用型」を選ぼう。 　また、運用タイプに関係なく、選べる

When choosing a service, you also want to check the "product". It is important to note that the "point management type" service does not offer investment trusts or stocks. What is available is a "management course" in which points are linked to the price of financial products. If you want to buy financial products, choose the "Cash Management Type".

So basically one option for those with a securities account, and one for those without.

hirami wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:10 am US citizens are not allowed to use robo-advisors, are either of these programs Robo-advisors?

US citizens have a lot of limitations: https://www.retirejapan.com/us-citizens ... d-holders/

One of the big ones is that they should avoid Japanese mutual funds and ETFs, as the IRS paperwork on these is horrendous.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:45 am

hirami wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:10 am US citizens are not allowed to use robo-advisors, are either of these programs Robo-advisors?

US citizens have a lot of limitations: https://www.retirejapan.com/us-citizens ... d-holders/

One of the big ones is that they should avoid Japanese mutual funds and ETFs, as the IRS paperwork on these is horrendous.

He might be okay with the "operations course". It is a points index that tracks another index of some sort. It is not in itself a financial instrument.

I think because 100 point = 100 yen, they basically have created a parity fund.

Kinda fascinating really.

Thank you very much for your replies! Especially for the two links that explain the differences in the programs and other related programs so clearly.

I guess my final question is, is Rakuten Shoken a mutual fund or an ETF?

I don't understand what either of those things are. My apologies for being uninformed.

hirami wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:16 am Thank you very much for your replies! Especially for the two links that explain the differences in the programs and other related programs so clearly.

I guess my final question is, is Rakuten Shoken a mutual fund or an ETF?

I don't understand what either of those things are. My apologies for being uninformed.

It is not a real mutual fund or ETF. It is not a security product.

It seems to be a "fund" of Rakuten points that is tacked to some other index.

My guess: Once you contribute your points, Rakuten says 1 point = 1 yen. Then they invest in another index themselves with real yen. They then adjust their "fake" index to match the real index.

That is why you do not need a stock trading account to participate.

Kanto wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:53 am He might be okay with the "operations course". It is a points index that tracks another index of some sort. It is not in itself a financial instrument.

I think because 100 point = 100 yen, they basically have created a parity fund.

Kinda fascinating really.

This is very interesting! It looks like the fund tracks Rakuten's balanced funds (楽天・インデックス・バランス・ファンド). From what I can gather you invest with Rakuten points, and when you make a withdrawal it's in points too, meaning there is no tax to pay.

fools_gold wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:40 pm

Kanto wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:53 am He might be okay with the "operations course". It is a points index that tracks another index of some sort. It is not in itself a financial instrument.

I think because 100 point = 100 yen, they basically have created a parity fund.

Kinda fascinating really.

This is very interesting! It looks like the fund tracks Rakuten's balanced funds (楽天・インデックス・バランス・ファンド). From what I can gather you invest with Rakuten points, and when you make a withdrawal it's in points too, meaning there is no tax to pay.

Seems that way! -> https://nelog.jp/rakuten-point-asset-management-course

Now how can we all buy points to invest tax-free?

This site seems to think that points in general are considered one-time income 一時所得
https://news.mynavi.jp/creditcard/investment-tax/

And that class is tax free until 500,000 yen.


In case the buying points thing is serious, you can buy Rakuten points from your nearest convenience store.

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:24 pm In case the buying points thing is serious, you can buy Rakuten points from your nearest convenience store.

I think the points you buy at convenience stores are limited time points and can't be used to buy funds.

Currently, I cash out my points to fund my Tsumitate NISA. I'll probably keep it that way. This points fund sounds interesting, but I like to cash out points as soon as I get them. Maybe I'm a bit paranoid, but I think there are certain risks with accumulating large amounts of points. For example, points can be withdrawn by the company without any redress, or stolen by third parties. Cash deposits and conventional investments are more regulated.