RetireJapan

So, a few years ago I invested a portion of my portfolio into physical gold. Yes, yes I know but I was channeling my inner dragon. Anyway, I tried to sell a 100g Valcambi bar today as I need some cash due to moving house and got rejected from every place as they would only take "foreign gold" bars 50g or below. Also they are only offering scrap value for foreign bars of any size. Japanese bars get the full 24k rate up to any size. When I asked at the shops I was given a few variations on how untrustworthy non-Japanese gold bars were along with associated teeth sucking. Anyone know what's going on here? I just want to sell the gold I bought from these guys 2 years ago back to them...

I see there are a few people selling metal on Yahoo auctions.

https://auctions.yahoo.co.jp/category/list/20461/

Here is one that has a few sales to their name:

https://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/e503527252

AinT wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 4:40 am So, a few years ago I invested a portion of my portfolio into physical gold. Yes, yes I know but I was channeling my inner dragon. Anyway, I tried to sell a 100g Valcambi bar today as I need some cash due to moving house and got rejected from every place as they would only take "foreign gold" bars 50g or below. Also they are only offering scrap value for foreign bars of any size. Japanese bars get the full 24k rate up to any size. When I asked at the shops I was given a few variations on how untrustworthy non-Japanese gold bars were along with associated teeth sucking. Anyone know what's going on here? I just want to sell the gold I bought from these guys 2 years ago back to them...

Could be a few things…

1. There is a lot of “fake” gold going around Asia.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixi ... d-in-China

A lot of businesses use weight to verify the metal, and not those fancy gold verification devices. So, they may not want to take a chance on “foreign” bars that are not purchased through a reliable broker.

2. Prices are inflated here. Perhaps refusing to purchase foreign bars at anything more than melt price keeps them artificially high.

Kanto wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:19 am
Could be a few things…

1. There is a lot of “fake” gold going around Asia.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixi ... d-in-China

A lot of businesses use weight to verify the metal, and not those fancy gold verification devices. So, they may not want to take a chance on “foreign” bars that are not purchased through a reliable broker.

Thing is I bought these bars literally from the same dealer two years ago. I have the purchase receipt with the bar number written on it. I think it may have actually been the same sales lady who served me. Just very frustrating.

AinT wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:35 am

Kanto wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:19 am
Could be a few things…

1. There is a lot of “fake” gold going around Asia.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixi ... d-in-China

A lot of businesses use weight to verify the metal, and not those fancy gold verification devices. So, they may not want to take a chance on “foreign” bars that are not purchased through a reliable broker.

Thing is I bought these bars literally from the same dealer two years ago. I have the purchase receipt with the bar number written on it. I think it may have actually been the same sales lady who served me. Just very frustrating.

Indeed. But if that is their stated policy, they will not break it regardless. This is Japan after all.

My guess is it is a bit of 1 and 2. They built a profit margin into their business, as many people end up selling back purchased gold. Oligopolies can be profitable.

I am sorry OP, maybe try somewhere like the Ginza area that caters to foreign clients?

This serves as a great argument against holding physical PM.

AinT wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 5:35 am
Thing is I bought these bars literally from the same dealer two years ago. I have the purchase receipt with the bar number written on it. I think it may have actually been the same sales lady who served me. Just very frustrating.

Very sorry to hear that. Japan is really crazy in many ways. I ended up buying PM through Rakuten securities at 1.65% commission because I didn't want the hassles that come with holding physical PM. Also I can sell at one click!

Their policy states that the gold, platinum, and silver accumulated by the customer will be deposited by them as a consumer deposit and they separately manages cash of the same value as precious metals entrusted to them by customers so in the unlikely event if Rakuten goes bankrupt, the assets accumulated by the customer will be preserved.

お客様が積み立てた金、プラチナ、銀は、当社が消費寄託（※）にてお預かりします。
楽天証券では、別途、お客様からお預かりした貴金属と同等の価値の現金を、当社の他の資産とは明確に区分し、責任を持って管理します。
そのため、万が一当社や保管業者が倒産した場合も、お客様の積み立てた資産は保全されることになります。楽天証券ならではの安心の仕組みです！

I hope my precious metals are safe with them!

This is also an option for some: https://www.retirejapan.com/blog/gold/

RMA wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 7:50 am
お客様が積み立てた金、プラチナ、銀は、当社が消費寄託（※）にてお預かりします。
楽天証券では、別途、お客様からお預かりした貴金属と同等の価値の現金を、当社の他の資産とは明確に区分し、責任を持って管理します。
そのため、万が一当社や保管業者が倒産した場合も、お客様の積み立てた資産は保全されることになります。楽天証券ならではの安心の仕組みです！

I hope my precious metals are safe with them!

You do not have the option to take physical delivery of this PM though... Why pay the high fees? An ETF would be a much better option, more liquid as well.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 9:14 am This is also an option for some: https://www.retirejapan.com/blog/gold/

Lol

Physical gold is subject to sales tax in Japan, which is another reason not to buy it.

Kanto wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 10:15 am You do not have the option to take physical delivery of this PM though... Why pay the high fees? An ETF would be a much better option, more liquid as well.

1.65% is one time cost and there are no other fees. No tax on profits below ¥500000 in a year. Anyway I am holding it as a insurance against inflation or sudden drop in equity markets, may even hold it for a really long time. I thought ETF to be bit confusing.