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Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:45 am
by sonia4647
I want to know about how Rakuten Securities account handles the realized profit after the sale of a stock. Isn't the whole money after settlement (initial value+profit) just added to the total assets of the account? Or is the money that is shown as total assets calculated as the money deposited minus the valuation loss (which is unrealized)? I invested 1700000 and realized a profit of 11 man (i.e., sold the stocks), with a valuation loss of 10 man on my remaining stocks. Should I now have 181 man in my account to use or 171 man? Would really like someone to clear this up.
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:10 am
by Kanto
What type of account do you have?
Are you factoring in capital gains, Rakuten's fees, other fund fees, and possible currency conversion fees?
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:31 am
by sonia4647
I have a specific account. I am dealing with only Japanese stocks, so there is no currency conversion involved.
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:50 am
by Kanto
sonia4647 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:31 am
I have a specific account. I am dealing with only Japanese stocks, so there is no currency conversion involved.
The number will be different depending on where you look.
The calculation on the front page includes unrealized losses and gains, but not unrealized tax fees etc.
It should also include realized losses and gains from sales. Along with realized tax and fees.
However, specifics can be found elsewhere.
Specific accounts can be tax-reporting or not fyi.
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:11 am
by sonia4647
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I do know what are the taxes and fees to be applied. My query is : If some one realizes a profit of 10 man say, of which about 2 man will go to the payment of taxes, fees etc., where does the remaining 8 man go? Is it not just deposited in the trading account?
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:25 am
by Kanto
sonia4647 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:11 am
Thank you for taking the trouble to reply. I do know what are the taxes and fees to be applied. My query is : If some one realizes a profit of 10 man say, of which about 2 man will go to the payment of taxes, fees etc., where does the remaining 8 man go? Is it not just deposited in the trading account?
You have a "trading account" in which funds are kept. This usually means your funds are in a money market account.
You can either (a) transfer it to your bank account (b) buy other products with it or (c) let it sit. Money market accounts earn a small amount of interest.
NOTE: Funds take time to settle 1-3 business days depending on factors. You cannot withdraw during this time, but you CAN buy other stocks and funds with that cash..
..............
Capital gains tax in Japan is 20%.
“Tokutei Koza” (特定口座) accounts automatically deduct taxes owed.
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:37 am
by RetireJapan
Not sure I understand the question.
In your broker account you will have a mix of investments you own (stocks, funds) and cash in the cash account. If you sell something you will get the cash paid into your account, and you will no longer own the stock/fund. If you have a 特定 account you may have taxes deducted from the cash before it goes into your account.
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am
by sonia4647
Yes, that is exactly what I was expecting. After I sell a stock, the cash should be deposited into the cash account so that I can use it to buy stocks again or transfer to another bank account if I wish. Let me say the problem again: I transferred 170 man to the trading account at first and with that I bought some stocks. After selling some of these stocks, my realized profit came out to be 11 man. At this point, the rest of the stocks showed a loss value of 10 man (i.e., if I decide to sell all of them right now). However, my trading account shows the value of total assets as 170 man. Shouldn't it be something like 178 man (considering capital gains tax)?
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:04 am
by adamu
sonia4647 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am
Yes, that is exactly what I was expecting. After I sell a stock, the cash should be deposited into the cash account so that I can use it to buy stocks again or transfer to another bank account if I wish. Let me say the problem again: I transferred 170 man to the trading account at first and with that I bought some stocks. After selling some of these stocks, my realized profit came out to be 11 man. At this point, the rest of the stocks showed a loss value of 10 man (i.e., if I decide to sell all of them right now). However, my trading account shows the value of total assets as 170 man. Shouldn't it be something like 178 man (considering capital gains tax)?
You're not explaining it very well. Here's my understanding:
You bought ¥1.7M of stock.
It gained value.
You sold some. You made a "profit" of ¥110k. You didn't tell us what its value was when you sold. It's also unclear if the profit is the total sale value, or just the gains.
Capital gains tax was deducted on the sale, leaving you with a cash balance of less than your sale value.
Your remaining stocks lost ¥100k in value.
You didn't tell us what the value was when you sold, or what the value is now, or how much you sold, so we don't know how much they're worth.
Your account balance should be your sale cash minus CGT plus whatever the current value of the stocks are. Which is apparently 1.7 million yen.
Re: Rakuten realized profit/loss
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:09 am
by Kanto
adamu wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:04 am
sonia4647 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:52 am
Yes, that is exactly what I was expecting. After I sell a stock, the cash should be deposited into the cash account so that I can use it to buy stocks again or transfer to another bank account if I wish. Let me say the problem again: I transferred 170 man to the trading account at first and with that I bought some stocks. After selling some of these stocks, my realized profit came out to be 11 man. At this point, the rest of the stocks showed a loss value of 10 man (i.e., if I decide to sell all of them right now). However, my trading account shows the value of total assets as 170 man. Shouldn't it be something like 178 man (considering capital gains tax)?
You're not explaining it very well. Here's my understanding:
You bought ¥1.7M of stock.
It gained value.
You sold some. You made a "profit" of ¥110k. You didn't tell us what its value was when you sold. It's also unclear if the profit is the total sale value, or just the gains.
Capital gains tax was deducted on the sale, leaving you with a cash balance of less than your sale value.
Your remaining stocks lost ¥100k in value.
You didn't tell us what the value was when you sold, or what the value is now, or how much you sold, so we don't know how much they're worth.
Your account balance should be your sale cash minus CGT plus whatever the current value of the stocks are. Which is apparently 1.7 million yen.
Here, this guide should help. It explains how Rakuten deals with domestic stock calculations.
https://member.rakuten-sec.co.jp/ITS/qaAss0013.html
However, if you want to provide specifics we might be able to help.