Page 6 of 11
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Fri Dec 18, 2020 10:35 pm
by concerned
Here is a link to refer to when thinking of dealing with investment advisors here and offshore investments
https://www.andrew-drummond.com/2014/09 ... tch-up-of/
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:36 am
by LukeTek
Thank you all for the comments. I am asking some questions just so I can report the answer here, but I am not going for this portfolio.
To open an iDeco account it seems I need the physical MyNumber card (every broker I tried requested to scan it...), which I haven't received yet, so I'll have to wait a bit for it.
I think that I will go for an international broker for the time being: since I don't have to pay taxes on that for the first five years, I might as well take full advantage of it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I will have to pay only the 10% which will be detracted directly from the broker, right? I already have an IB account set up. I will use either my Transferwise account (I already successful transferred some money from it to IB) or my Sony bank account. Sony bank also provides with 3 free JPY to JPY transfers a month, so I think I'll be able to skip at least that commission. Anyway I will use
this thread for all questions related with IB transactions.
I am also going forward with the second advisor, but I guess it's now purely to understand exactly what kind of offering and fees he woud provide me with.
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:16 am
by RetireJapan
LukeTek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:36 am
I think that I will go for an international broker for the time being: since I don't have to pay taxes on that for the first five years, I might as well take full advantage of it.
Unfortunately my understanding of this is that, as of 2017, it is not correct. Foreign earned income may be exempt from Japanese taxes for the first five years of residency (depending on how it is earned and whether it is remitted to Japan), but investment income is deemed to occur where the individual is, not where the investments are, and thus is taxable from year one.
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:08 am
by mule96
LukeTek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:36 am
Thank you all for the comments. I am asking some questions just so I can report the answer here, but I am not going for this portfolio.
Great decision
LukeTek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:36 am
I already have an IB account set up. I will use either my Transferwise account (I already successful transferred some money from it to IB) or my Sony bank account. Sony bank also provides with 3 free JPY to JPY transfers a month, so I think I'll be able to skip at least that commission. Anyway I will use
this thread for all questions related with IB transactions.
I wrote a lot in that thread
If you have a working way of funding IB that is great! TW is maybe not that cheap though? It would also be interested in knowing if the international transfers from Sony Bank work for this!
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:11 am
by LukeTek
RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:16 am
Unfortunately my understanding of this is that, as of 2017, it is not correct. Foreign earned income may be exempt from Japanese taxes for the first five years of residency (depending on how it is earned and whether it is remitted to Japan), but investment income is deemed to occur where the individual is, not where the investments are, and thus is taxable from year one.
you seem to be correct: from
https://www.nta.go.jp/english/taxes/ind ... 019/00.pdf
and
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/D ... 015.315%25.
I think I understand that this kind of investment would fall under "dividend income", and would be taxable at 20,42%. Too bad...
mule96 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:08 am
It would also be interested in knowing if the international transfers from Sony Bank work for this!
I'll let you know, I'll post my experience there
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:20 am
by RetireJapan
LukeTek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:11 am
I think I understand that this kind of investment would fall under "dividend income", and would be taxable at 20,42%. Too bad...
It's only taxable if you have a taxable event, for example: receiving a dividend, or selling and making a capital gain. If you just buy and hold there is no tax due until you sell or receive a dividend.
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:24 am
by LukeTek
RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:20 am
LukeTek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:11 am
I think I understand that this kind of investment would fall under "dividend income", and would be taxable at 20,42%. Too bad...
It's only taxable if you have a taxable event, for example: receiving a dividend, or selling and making a capital gain. If you just buy and hold there is no tax due until you sell or receive a dividend.
Sure, that's what I am planning to do.
Something is not clear to me though: let's take the recent example of Tesla entering the S&P500. Since the construction of the fund changes, does an ETF like VOO have to pay dividends?
Also, what's your (and everyone else's) take on buying UCITS ETFs instead of "regular" ones considering I am European? Example: instead of VOO buying VUSA/GSPX. Would it make any difference tax-wise?
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:32 am
by RetireJapan
The main thing is the US withholding tax on dividends. If the fund contains only US-listed companies, it doesn't make a difference, but if it also contains non-US companies it is probably better (all things being equal) to have a non-US listed fund. There is also the issue of US inheritance taxes, which may or may not be a problem depending on where you are when you die.
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:37 am
by Kanto
LukeTek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:24 am
RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:20 am
LukeTek wrote: ↑Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:11 am
I think I understand that this kind of investment would fall under "dividend income", and would be taxable at 20,42%. Too bad...
It's only taxable if you have a taxable event, for example: receiving a dividend, or selling and making a capital gain. If you just buy and hold there is no tax due until you sell or receive a dividend.
Sure, that's what I am planning to do.
Something is not clear to me though: let's take the recent example of Tesla entering the S&P500. Since the construction of the fund changes, does an ETF like VOO have to pay dividends?
Also, what's your (and everyone else's) take on buying UCITS ETFs instead of "regular" ones considering I am European? Example: instead of VOO buying VUSA/GSPX. Would it make any difference tax-wise?
It depends if this is with a Japanese broker or not. If it is with a Japanese broker, do not choose American funds, choose Japanese domiciled funds.
I would also look beyond the American markets.
Msci ACWI - global equity index (Emaxis Slim All Country)
FTSE All-World (Rakuten Global Equities) ->
Tracks Vanguard VT
If you want to stick with the S&P500 with a Japanese broker, pick a Japanese mutual fund or ETF.
eMAXIS Slim 米国株式(S&P500)
MAXIS米国株式(S&P500)
This allows you to avoid, Tripple or double taxation.
Re: Offshore vs Onshore Investment
Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 5:53 am
by LukeTek
I am planning to go with eMAXIS Slim whole world (either
this or
this depending on whether I want to include Japan or not) with iDeco and possibly NISA (if available). But for my main portfolio I think I will stick with IB.
I have heard before about US withholding 40% when you die. From
this article: "The US levies a 40% estate tax on US assets (stocks, bonds, ETFs, funds, cash in a US-based brokerage) above US$60K when the account holder who is a NRA passes away". Am I correct in saying that if I use a UCITS ETF that would not apply?