RetireJapan

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 1:57 pm

northSaver wrote: ↑Sat Dec 07, 2024 12:15 pm By the way, he finally got his Japanese passport yesterday. He stated on the form that he already had a UK passport (it was either that or lie), so they phoned him at work and complained about it. But they begrudgingly accepted the application and told him to choose just one nationality as soon as he can. He won't of course. I don't know if they're powerless to refuse an otherwise valid application, or if he was just lucky. Has anyone actually been refused I wonder?

No, currently as long as you are born with more than one nationality Japan turns a blind eye, just asking you to choose as soon as possible.

Don't lie on the form, that is a criminal offence.

If a Japanese Citizen had stated that (s)he had obtained their UK, or other foreign Passport other than by Birth, through Naturalization or through Registration of a Child of a UK Citizen by Decent, or after Adoption under section 3(1) of the British Nationality Act, or other laws of other countries, then (s)he would have triggered Article 11 of the Japanese Nationality Act and would no longer be a Japanese Citizen.

The Passport Office would have denied the passport application and triggered Article 105 of the Japanese Family Registration Law and reported to the Municipality where the Koseki is registered to immediately remove the person from the Koseki - Joseki 除籍 - and (s)he would no longer be registered as a Japanese Citizen.
Well, (s)he would have no longer been a Japanese Citizen from the minute (s)he, or their legal guardian, took another nationality of their own volition.
(S)he would then need a Visa to stay in Japan.

Former Japanese Citizens get refused all the time.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2024/ ... ty-ruling/

If you don't want to lose your Japanese Citizenship obtained at Birth, DON'T NATURALIZE or register for another Nationality Post-Partum that wasn't acquired at Birth!

Thanks RJ and Tkydon. So they can't refuse if the applicant was born to a British mother or father, even if born in Japan. I suppose the phonecall was simply an attempt to enforce single citizenship, even though they can't actually force it in this case. What a strange system

Japan trying to enforce a single nationality is just another anachronism that will eventually be changed but don’t hold your breath. Very few developed countries still try to restrict the rights of their citizens in this way - Singapore, Korea and Austria and Holland are the only ones I know of an Austria permits it for children born abroad to one non-Austrian parent.

northSaver wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:04 am Thanks RJ and Tkydon. So they can't refuse if the applicant was born to a British mother or father, even if born in Japan. I suppose the phonecall was simply an attempt to enforce single citizenship, even though they can't actually force it in this case. What a strange system

If the UK Citizen parent was born in the UK or dependent territories, or to a UK Government Official parent, (other restrictions apply), then the parent is a British Citizen, not by Decent.
If the child is born in the UK or dependent territories to a UK Citizen parent, or to a UK Government Official parent, (other restrictions apply), then the child is a British Citizen, not by Decent, and this does not affect Japanese Citizenship if the child is also born with Japanese Citizenship and the birth is registered at the Japanese Embassy or Consulate within 3 months of birth.

If the child is born overseas to a UK Citizen, not by Decent, and not a UK Government Official parent, then the Child is a British Citizen by Decent under Section 2-1(a) of the British Nationality Act; a British Citizen by Birth and entitled to a UK Passport, and this does not affect Japanese Citizenship if the child is also born with Japanese Citizenship.

If the child is born overseas to a parent who is UK Citizen by Decent, and not a UK Government Official parent, then the Child is NOT a British Citizen.

A child born to a UK Citizen by Decent can be a British Citizen, not by Decent if born in the UK or dependent territories. This does not affect Japanese Citizenship if the child is also born with Japanese Citizenship.

So your child who is a British Citizen By Decent cannot pass on British Citizenship to his children unless they are born in the UK or dependent territories.

There are certain ways for a child born overseas to a UK Citizen by Decent to become a British Citizen, or a child to become a British Citizen through Adoption. This will result in the applicant losing Japanese Citizenship under Article 11 of the Japanese Nationality Law.

Deep Blue wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2024 3:41 am Japan trying to enforce a single nationality is just another anachronism that will eventually be changed but don’t hold your breath. Very few developed countries still try to restrict the rights of their citizens in this way - Singapore, Korea and Austria and Holland are the only ones I know of an Austria permits it for children born abroad to one non-Austrian parent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

"Multiple citizenship avoided

Some countries may take measures to avoid creation of multiple citizenship. Since a country has control only over who has its citizenship but has no control over who has any other country's citizenship, the only way for a country to avoid multiple citizenship is to deny its citizenship to people in cases when they would have another citizenship. This may take the following forms:

Automatic loss of citizenship if another citizenship is acquired voluntarily, such as Austria,[21] Azerbaijan,[22] Bahrain, China (with the exception of Hong Kong and Macau, which allow multiple citizenship in parallel with Chinese citizenship, but prevent consular protection of the involved nation in their own and also in Mainland China),[23] India,[24] Indonesia,[25] Japan,[26] Kazakhstan,[27] Malaysia,[28] Nepal,[29] and Singapore.[30] Saudi Arabian citizenship may be withdrawn if a Saudi citizen obtains a foreign citizenship without the permission of the Prime Minister.[31] The Netherlands, which have some exceptions to dual citizenship's admission, such loss, in practice, is not automatic and may depend on the knowledge and the initiative of the executive power to take place.
Possible (but not automatic) loss of citizenship if another citizenship is acquired voluntarily, such as South Africa.[32]
Possible (but not automatic) loss of citizenship if people with multiple citizenships do not renounce their other citizenships after reaching the age of majority or within a certain period of time after obtaining multiple citizenships, such as Indonesia,[25] Japan,[33] and Montenegro (where such loss is automatic but with some exceptions).[34]
Denying automatic citizenship by birth if the child may acquire another citizenship automatically at birth.
Requiring applicants for naturalization to apply to renounce their existing citizenship(s) and provide proof from those countries that they have renounced the citizenship."

Not great company Japan is keeping in that in that list

On a similar vein, while being born overseas to an American mother or father gets you American citizenship, however, it does not guarantee that child can pass on their American citizenship. To do that, they have to be physically present in the USA for at least 5 years (and not just as a child either) BEFORE their child is born.

Child of A U.S. Citizen Parent and Noncitizen Parent who is NOT a U.S. National: The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States for at least 5 years, including at least 2 years after 14 years of age.
https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/vol ... -chapter-3


The (expensive and time-consuming) workaround is a US citizen can sponsor a wife and child if immigration to the USA is goal.

TJKansai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:47 am On a similar vein, while being born overseas to an American mother or father gets you American citizenship, however, it does not guarantee that child can pass on their American citizenship. To do that, they have to be physically present in the USA for at least 5 years (and not just as a child either) BEFORE their child is born.

I thought all children born in the US had the right to American citizenship. So the mother at least would only need to be present in the US for ten seconds before their child is born, not five years.

Deep Blue wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 3:28 am

TJKansai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:47 am On a similar vein, while being born overseas to an American mother or father gets you American citizenship, however, it does not guarantee that child can pass on their American citizenship. To do that, they have to be physically present in the USA for at least 5 years (and not just as a child either) BEFORE their child is born.

I thought all children born in the US had the right to American citizenship. So the mother at least would only need to be present in the US for ten seconds before their child is born, not five years.

https://constitutioncenter.org/the-cons ... ndment-xiv

According to Section 1 of the 14th. Amendment of the US Constitution, (currently) "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.", regardless of whether the parents are US Citizens or not.

Trump says that he plans to change this on Day 1 of his next term...

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... broad.html

For a US Citizen Parent to pass their US Citizenship to a child born outside the US, amongst other restrictions,

"A child born on or after November 14, 1986 will obtain citizenship if:
The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or its territories for five years before the child’s birth. At least two of these years must be after age 14.

A child born between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986 will obtain citizenship if:
The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or its territories for 10 years before the child’s birth. At least five of these years must be after age 14."

TJKansai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2024 1:47 am On a similar vein, while being born overseas to an American mother or father gets you American citizenship, however, it does not guarantee that child can pass on their American citizenship. To do that, they have to be physically present in the USA for at least 5 years (and not just as a child either) BEFORE their child is born.

Child of A U.S. Citizen Parent and Noncitizen Parent who is NOT a U.S. National: The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States for at least 5 years, including at least 2 years after 14 years of age.
https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/vol ... -chapter-3
...

This (and what TKYDON posted) may lead to the impression that the child is then born in the US, but I don't think that's necessary.

If the above time periods are fullfilled/met, that parent can then go abroad and pass on citizenship as would a natural born US person.