Hi, EmaxisSlim.Japanese attitude towards bilingualism in the public system is very shocking and antithetical to existing research, data, and commonsense.
Whoa! Please re-read my contributions to this thread. In no way do they promote or even favor monolingualism over bilingualism. Quite the opposite. Bilingual skills have eased my children’s paths to universities and careers.I agree with EmaxisSlimCultist on the monolingualism versus bilingualism thing. I find that it's in monolingual cultures, of which Japan, the US, and the UK are the primary examples (and which I assume are the cultures most reflected on this board) many people seem to believe that bilingual education somehow stunts you, like the above sentiment that you'll be stuck at 15 year old levels if be you try. But you can be native in both, and there are countless examples.
Average reading level in the US is actually much lower. This is an issue in the pharmaceutical industry because in the US (and most other markets) we are required to have "patient education materials" (PEM in the quote below) written so that they can be understood at around a 5-6th grade reading level, which can be very difficult. From the link below:I've read that the average reading level for Americans is estimated at Grade 9 or 10 level... which suggests that 15 is basically "native" level already.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3514986/The Joint Commission states that PEMs should be written at or below a 5th grade reading level, and encourages hospitals to use readability tests to revise written materials in order to address the health literacy needs of all patients.
Health literacy is a critical issue. The average US resident reads at an 8th grade level, and the average Medicare beneficiary reads at a 5th grade level.
I am happy to learn that there’s no misunderstanding. I appreciate that there are people suspicious of bilingualism, but they tend to be American and on a certain end of a politically extreme. I am neither. Actually, I have done a lot of research into bilingualism and have published extensively on the subject, although not recently.Sorry if that came across the wrong way, but I was just trying to use your "15-year-old level" as a discussion point, there was nothing ad hominem intended. On the contrary, your posts have been very informative for someone like myself with young children, and you're fairly clear on where you stand.
I've read that the average reading level for Americans is estimated at Grade 9 or 10 level... which suggests that 15 is basically "native" level already. Going higher than that, ie. achieving some sort of higher-level "professional competence" in a language, even for monolinguals, becomes a matter of education, exposure, and experience, and I see nothing to suggest it can't be achieved in more than one language. Are there challenges to achieving "professional level" competency is more than one language? Sure. Is it easy? Probably not. But what I take issue with is people who suggest that merely trying to do so will ultimately stunt kids and leave them competent in neither. And I've noticed that people who say so usually did not grow up bi/trilingual. And international schools have below-average kids just like anywhere else, so there will always be anecdotal examples of kids who couldn't pull it off... but it's just that, anecdotal.
I am speaking in generalities, and explicitly avoiding anecdotes. Language is a necessary element of cultural identity, but it is not sufficient in itself.Tokyo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:01 pmI am happy to learn that there’s no misunderstanding. I appreciate that there are people suspicious of bilingualism, but they tend to be American and on a certain end of a politically extreme. I am neither. Actually, I have done a lot of research into bilingualism and have published extensively on the subject, although not recently.Sorry if that came across the wrong way, but I was just trying to use your "15-year-old level" as a discussion point, there was nothing ad hominem intended. On the contrary, your posts have been very informative for someone like myself with young children, and you're fairly clear on where you stand.
I've read that the average reading level for Americans is estimated at Grade 9 or 10 level... which suggests that 15 is basically "native" level already. Going higher than that, ie. achieving some sort of higher-level "professional competence" in a language, even for monolinguals, becomes a matter of education, exposure, and experience, and I see nothing to suggest it can't be achieved in more than one language. Are there challenges to achieving "professional level" competency is more than one language? Sure. Is it easy? Probably not. But what I take issue with is people who suggest that merely trying to do so will ultimately stunt kids and leave them competent in neither. And I've noticed that people who say so usually did not grow up bi/trilingual. And international schools have below-average kids just like anywhere else, so there will always be anecdotal examples of kids who couldn't pull it off... but it's just that, anecdotal.
I also am informed by my personal experience as a Japanese learner. My reality is that I have been stuck for the past 20 years between N1 and N2. I have written dozens of academic publications but never one in Japanese. Presented many times but only once in Japanese and even then only as a co-presenter. I rarely read in Japanese and can only remember reading one Japanese book from cover to cover. I have lived here half of my life but I remain a gaijin. It’s simply not my language, culture or values. But I do know that when I return to my home country, I can comprehend everything I see, hear and read. (Well, maybe not the latest teenage slang.) People there get my sarcasm and jokes. My fear was bringing up a child who has no culture in which she is truly comfortable. She would be a gaijin in both (or all) cultures, without any home country.
I wanted bilingual kids but even more I wanted my kids to be happy, healthy and successful. That’s why I got involved in bilingualism. And my children’s and personal experience shows that it’s not easy or straightforward either. That message needs to be out there to balance all those overwhelmingly positive articles I see about the benefits of bilingual brains. I have never read any research about those brains being happier or more content. That’s what is really important and needs to be investigated. I happily pass that baton onto you younger guys.
Sounds very reasonable to me!Ori wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:02 am Bringing the discussion back to practical level, I do not think that shelling out for international school or studying abroad is the only way to achieve bilingualism (or let's speak frankly - so much desired fluency in English). I myself achieved fluency only in my early twenties with help of only books and movies. Surely, I'm not a native speaker level fluent, but I'm good enough to get work opportunities in good international companies. And I learned Japanese even later in life.
So my plan is to talk with my kid as much is possible in English and in my native tongue, and then have him go to English school once a week or so since age three. And to keep him motivated as much as possible (books, tv shows, movies, friends, job prospects when he is old enough to understand etc.). Plus summer camps, student exchange or whatever additional opportunities there are.
If I could afford more, I would do be happy to send him to an international school and Ivy League uni, but I'm not going to spend all my retirement money on kid's education. He will have to work hard, as I did. Eventually, my main goal is to instill in him qualities which lead to achieving success. Skills such as second language are not that difficult to obtain, after all.