Wales4rugbyWC23 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 11:46 pm
I am reposting this from the facebook page of British expats in Japan, about getting your UK state pension unfrozen if you go and stay in the Phillipines for six months or for that matter going back to the UK/EU.
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Interesting! Thanks for posting.
Albeit direct conversation from the DWP has occured in both this case and in the video Stuart posted, private conversation cannot replace publicly published rules, and cannot be seen as 100% reliable, through no fault of any of the correspondents. If only the International Pension Centre would publish clear rules and processes...
Fantastic detective work by our friends in the Philippines. However, I am not sure about the following conclusion:
outlines in Article 3, that one must reside in either party (UK or the Philippines) in order for the social security agreement to apply
I'm not 100% sure this is correct. I think Article 3 is about reciprocity and non-discrimination for those subject to the legislation of one country (UK or Philippines) who then become resident in the other country. Someone subject to UK legislation re pensions who moves to the Philippines should be subject to the same Filipino legislation as Filipino nationals (and vice versa), subject to any special provisions from the convention. However... in my opinion it is not as cleanly or clearly worded as most introductions to bilateral conventions.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/2002
Looking further into the legilsation:
Article 4.1
Subject to the provisions of paragraph (2) of this Article, a person who would be entitled to receive an old age pension, survivor's benefit, or an industrial disablement pension under the legislation of one Party if he were in the territory of that Party shall be entitled to receive that pension or benefit while he is in the territory of the other Party, as if he were in the territory of the former Party.
In other words, if a person is in the Philippines but is entitled to a UK state pension, he would receive it as if he were in the UK (ie uprated!).
Article 4.2 provides further clarification regarding uprating:
A person who is entitled to receive an old age pension or survivor's benefit under the legislation of the United Kingdom and who would be entitled to an increase in the rate of that pension or benefit if he were in the territory of that Party shall, after the date of coming into force of this Convention, be entitled to receive any such increase prescribed on or after that date by that legislation, if he is in the territory of the Philippines, but nothing in this paragraph shall confer entitlement to receive any such increases prescribed before that date by that legislation.
The wording, with emphasis added, is for residence or visit. (Unless this has been superceded somehow, it seems pretty clear from the legislation.)
I imagine these reciprocal agreements were largely drafted in identikit fashion. I further imagine the USA and Bermuda deviated on this clause, which is why media reports state that visits to the USA and Bermuda do not entitle state pension recipients to temporary uprating.
But... has UK legislation somehow superseded this and closed any 'loophole' for temporary uprating to certain countries?
Section 20 of the Pensions Act 2014 covers overseas residents, and 20.3 seems to cover the 'visiting' clause:
Regulations under this section do not affect the rate of an overseas resident's state pension for any period during which he or she is in Great Britain or a territory specified in the regulations (but once the overseas resident ceases to be in Great Britain or a specified territory the rate reverts to what it would have been had he or she not been in Great Britain or a specified territory).
Sounds good on the surface... but what do 'the regulations' say?
Hmm...
#98 of the Explanatory Notes of the Pensions Act 2014 Pensions Act 2014 - Explanatory Notes states:
For overseas residents, regulations may provide that such a person is not entitled to up-rating. This will enable similar provision to be made as under the old retirement pension rules. Regulations under this section will be made taking into account provision under relevant treaties, such as those in respect of the European Union, and bi-lateral treaties providing for reciprocity in social security matters and which cover up-rating.
But again, what of 'the regulations'?
Unfortunately, yet not unpredictably, the
Statutory Instrument The State Pension Regulations 2015 (secondary legislation associated with the Pensions Act 2014) quickly descends into legalese and complicated referencing.
Further digging might unearth answers here.
There is also
The Social Security (Reciprocal Agreements) Order 2016, but I can't say I've digested it!
why EU, and not the Philippines, USA, other country with agreement? Especially as post brexit, EU (apart from Ireland) should be no different in classification to the other agreement countries. Which they could not give a solid answer. And even said their system does not allow them to input other countries apart from UK/EU for unfreeze visiting. My guess would be that information sharing between UK and EU is still robust, as in it would be easier for DWP to check immigration records for UK/EU, to check if someone is falsely claiming they are still visiting UK/EU, to get unfrozen rates, when in reality they left months ago. Whereas for the Philippines, as an example, that level of immigration access would be difficult, or not even possible for DWP to access.
When Brexit occurred, extensive legal efforts were made to protect various rights of people who could be affected by the change in status of the UK. Thus, negotations for reciprocity on various points, including pension uprating, were robust.
Sounds ominous that non-EU reciprocal agreement countries are in the 'computer says no' category.
) but yet these media outlets were saying it does, but without providing or referencing actual official DWP guidance