RetireJapan

northSaver wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:12 pm

captainspoke wrote: ↑Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:09 am Smush...

One time that I fell. Two separate two month long hospital stays, a year apart--first to stabilize the broken pelvis (the upper two plates), and the second to install the hip (due to acetabular fracture). I finally gave up the lofstrand crutch a few months after the second surgery, but it was my companion for a year and half. The same accident broke 6-7 ribs and a collarbone in two places.

https://tokyocycle.com/attachments/img_9153-jpg.14379/

I did this on my own. If someone else had been responsible they'd've been out a few million yen or more for treatment alone, plus lost income, etc. I'm not sure what the apology money would be if someone else had caused the accident. Personally, if I could go back in time and erase this from my life, ¥10m would be cheap. Even 20.

If you don't mind me asking captainspoke, what was the cause of your horrific cycling accident? Sorry if the details are in the link you provided, but I need to be a member to view that page.

I too am a keen cyclist and have had a few falls, but nothing nearly as bad as what you described. Maybe you were just unlucky? I have a penchant for flying down hills at great speed (on dry roads of course), I guess a blowout could easily result in an injury like that. If you are willing to share what happened, then I'll try to avoid doing whatever you were doing! Thanks

Yes, I clicked the link too without success, and also fly down hills at velocity (much less so going up…). Just about everyone I know here (Hida City, lots of mountains) has come off at some point, but nothing as cataclysmic as the Captain.

Locally, there are sprinklers mostly down the centers of many roads. These are concrete, maybe 15cm wide, and the adjoining road surface is asphalt. There'd been some road work there, and it seemed done. Was enjoying the new surface, and tho in town, really cranking on the slight downhill, planning on making a right turn. So was there in the middle. Maybe glanced behind to check for cars, and as I crossed the center I hit this groove (the long way) between the new asphalt and the concrete of the sprinkler. Maybe 2-3cm wide, just right for a bike tire. I remember a strange sound (tire in groove), and have two visual flashes--one being about 45º down, then next being down against the ground, pavement sliding by against my bars. Next (not sure how long) lying on the road unable to really move. Luckily, someone was right there to help, directed cars around and called an ambulance.

I sent you a link via PM. Be careful out there.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 3:04 am
I got specific cycle insurance yesterday (this one as recommended by captainspoke: https://www.hokencontract.jp/jtsa-bicycle/).

That organization's plans are nice in that there aren't any age limits (the Rakuten plan only covers those below 70 years of age).

Since you mention the 300 million liability limit, you appear to be enrolled in the "comprehensive vehicular accident course" (Plans D-F) rather than the bicycle-only course (Plans A-C), which caps liability at 100 million. That means you're also covered if you get hit by a car as a pedestrian. The benefits seem pretty good for that price, and you're getting a 30% group discount because you're becoming a 自転車会員 at the same time you take out the policy (400 yen of the policy cost goes to the organization). Jidan is handled by Sompo Japan, a major insurance company.

ClearAsMud wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:08 pm Since you mention the 300 million liability limit, you appear to be enrolled in the "comprehensive vehicular accident course" (Plans D-F) rather than the bicycle-only course (Plans A-C), which caps liability at 100 million. That means you're also covered if you get hit by a car as a pedestrian. The benefits seem pretty good for that price, and you're getting a 30% group discount because you're becoming a 自転車会員 at the same time you take out the policy (400 yen of the policy cost goes to the organization). Jidan is handled by Sompo Japan, a major insurance company.

Sweet. Getting hit as a pedestrian also seems quite likely, given my hobby of reminding drivers that pedestrian crossings exist

Would this insurance stack with the driver's insurance if one were hit by a car, or would you only be able to claim one of them?

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 11:55 pm Would this insurance stack with the driver's insurance if one were hit by a car, or would you only be able to claim one of them?

An interesting question -- and you shouldn't take this as definitive -- but I think the answer comes from realizing that bicycle/car insurance typically consists of both personal-liability insurance (個人賠償責任保険) and accidental-injury insurance (傷害保険). Personal-liability insurance covers damage you cause to others or their property and is always limited to actual damages, so if you are hit by a car as a pedestrian, the driver's insurance will cover anything that the driver is legally responsible for up to the liability limits of his/her policy. The personal-liability part of your own policy basically has no role to play (although I suppose there might be some cases where your recklessness resulted in the driver sustaining damages). On the other hand, the accidental-injury provisions of your own policy specify fixed benefits to be paid to you (or your beneficiaries) in the event of accidental death or injury, and as far as I've been able to determine, those specified fixed benefits (death benefits, daily hospitalization allowances, one-time surgery payments and the like), should generally stack with benefits from any other relevant insurance policies you have [edit: and presumably whatever the driver is held legally responsible for] (the sites I've seen say that stacking would only be a problem if the amounts seemed excessive).

Warnings against having overlapping insurance coverage are thus usually referring to liability coverage rather than accidental injury/death benefits, and most sites suggest that 100 million of liability insurance on a single policy will normally suffice in that respect, although you should go higher if you want the additional peace of mind (and an unlimited liability auto-insurance policy may already have you covered). Having multiple liability-insurance policies is, according to such sites, often a waste of premiums.

By the way, this site cautions against the TS-mark insurance available from bicycle shops because of stringent payout conditions that apparently result in many claims being denied. Better to go with a standard bicycle policy with Jidan service, is the advice.

Bonus: Kakaku.com popularity ranking of bicycle-insurance plans.

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:49 am

TokyoBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:40 am

ClearAsMud wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 12:17 am Note that while 示談 is an informal process in the sense that the courts don't get involved, it may include consultations with lawyers and often ends with a signed agreement (although that is not an essential requirement). Once an agreement has been reached you can't retract it, so you should be sure the possibility of delayed physical effects has been taken into account.

Here's a pretty good explanation of the 示談 process pertaining to automobile accidents. It's provided by a legal office, which of course makes money from consulting on such matters.

I personally would only pay for a liability-insurance policy that offers a 示談 service -- more peace of mind that way.

As with fire/household insurance, other forms of personal-liability insurance may cover bicycle accidents as well, including automobile insurance, accident insurance, credit-card provisions, and group liability insurance. The law only requires that you have insurance covering such accidents, and as yet no penalties are imposed for noncompliance. It's up to you to have/choose the type that gives you the coverage you need (as I mentioned earlier, and as found in item #3 of the page cited in the post above, fire-insurance riders typically provide coverage only for injury to others rather than to the policyholder). For a broader range of coverage -- everyday accidents, etc. -- at somewhat more expense, you might consider looking into other forms of liability insurance rather than dedicated bicycle insurance.

Would you happen to know if Rakuten Cycle insurance includes 示談? I have the family plan (6000 ) and I cannot find a firm answer on this.

Also, it sounds like KCLenny might not have fire/renters insurance? You might want to double check that.

Is this your plan? https://www.rakuten-sonpo.co.jp/family/ ... fault.aspx

It says it includes Jidan.

I am very unsure now. That is a sales page that links to a quote request. It could correspond to their higher level plan.

TokyoBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:18 am

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:49 am Is this your plan? https://www.rakuten-sonpo.co.jp/family/ ... fault.aspx
It says it includes Jidan.

[Table image]
I am very unsure now. That is a sales page that links to a quote request. It could correspond to their higher level plan.

Confusion is understandable with Rakuten: sometimes the left hand doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing.

Clicking the link for a quote request takes you to this page, where you tick the confirmation box and input a starting date, then click the type of insurance you want (individual, couples, or family) to see eligibility details, then click the quotation button to see the actual prices for each plan. A total of nine plans are offered, three under each general type of insurance.

Your table seems to match the coverage given under the "Basic Type" of family insurance. The impressive list of riders near the bottom of the table doesn't specifically mention Jidan service, but that's probably because it's standard with the policy and not a rider. This page is where Rakuten says that Jidan service (示談交渉サービス) is included in the family plan, although one would expect your actual policy to mention it somewhere.

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Edit: The pamphlet that explains Rakuten's "Cycle Assist" insurance in detail can be downloaded from this link. The Jidan service -- included as part of the liability insurance rider -- is explained on page 15.

ClearAsMud wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 12:24 am

TokyoBoglehead wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 6:18 am

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Thu Apr 27, 2023 6:49 am Is this your plan? https://www.rakuten-sonpo.co.jp/family/ ... fault.aspx
It says it includes Jidan.

[Table image]
I am very unsure now. That is a sales page that links to a quote request. It could correspond to their higher level plan.

Confusion is understandable with Rakuten: sometimes the left hand doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing.

Clicking the link for a quote request takes you to this page, where you tick the confirmation box and input a starting date, then click the type of insurance you want (individual, couples, or family) to see eligibility details, then click the quotation button to see the actual prices for each plan. A total of nine plans are offered, three under each general type of insurance.

Your table seems to match the coverage given under the "Basic Type" of family insurance. The impressive list of riders near the bottom of the table doesn't specifically mention Jidan service, but that's probably because it's standard with the policy and not a rider. This page is where Rakuten says that Jidan service (示談交渉サービス) is included in the family plan, although one would expect your actual policy to mention it somewhere.

Thank you very much for the clarification. Perhaps I will consider renewing with a provider that has clearer terms.

I chose them as I'm already in the ecosystem.... Sigh.

Still waiting on the insurance company and their chosen agent/3rd party company to come take photos of the bike damage and interview me. Arranged for Monday 8th as they won’t do any earlier. So can’t even get the bike fixed before then.
Thankfully my friend called the bike shop and asked them if I was able to get a temp bike as being without a bike for that length of time is ridiculous as use it everyday to get to and from work. Luckily they gave me one without question, or even paperwork to my absolute shock (and delight!).

On the topic of bike insurance, I don’t really understand insurance anyway, so I hope someone can help me, a simple working class pleb.
Does bike insurance usually just cover the health costs? Or does it usually include bike damages too? Cause I’d kind of like one that covers both given the situation.
Or is it not worth it?
Is Rakuten bike insurance good enough for my needs (minus the bike damage from what I understand)?
Their couple plan would be nice for me and my wife.
I just honestly find insurance stuff absolutely impenetrable. Sorry.

KCLenny wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2023 8:21 am Still waiting on the insurance company and their chosen agent/3rd party company to come take photos of the bike damage ...

Sure, but I think I'd have taken it into your bike shop--have them do their own assessment of what it would take to make your bike "whole".

Tho it may look to you like 'just the front wheel', a bike mechanic should be able to look thoroughly for frame misalignment (something bent) and any cracks (especially if it's aluminum, which cracks, and not steel, which instead bends). Steel can be bent back, it's forgiving that way. Aluminum, OTOH, if it does bend and is not cracked, should not be bent back, and if it's bent/cracked, it should be replaced.

Given that you have a good bike shop, they are the experts, they likely have seen and handled damaged bikes before (experience), and they can credibly assess any problems.

If possible, have their assessment at hand when someone comes to take pictures. You then may be able to point at places they may gloss over--an area around the head tube, the top or down tubes, and so on.

Or, leave the bike at your shop, and have them go there to look it over in the presence of a mechanic.

Once your bike shop does their assessment, the insurance company may go with that instead of paying for their own agent/3rd party to do it.