RetireJapan

TJKansai wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:30 am

EmaxisSlim Cultist wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:09 am It is a very difficult choice to make. However, I believe choosing an international school often decides your child's future for them. As it makes it very difficult for them to attend university in Japan.

I would agree that perhaps the majority of international school grads go overseas, but that doesn't have to be the case.

I have a number of friends (with a decent income and just one child) who invested the 10,000,000-20,000,000 in international schooling. Their kids were able to enter top-ranked, all-English private uni programs in Japan. One side benefit is some of these programs have exchanges with schools overseas, and you can pay the (Japan) domestic ¥1,500,000 tuition for a year of US school that charges ¥5,000,000/yr.

We didn't use intl schools (none available), but one of ours did this kind of exchange from a national uni (and I think all/most of those have slots for this kind of exchange). It was not from an all english program, tho, and you do have to qualify--grades and TOEFL, not sure about recommendations. That third year abroad turned out to be a little cheaper than a year of school here. We continued paying tuition as normal here, no change in the billing, living there was cheaper.

My wife and I are both US citizens but all three of our boys were born in Japan and all have maintained fluency in Japanese. We went through all three of the options in the poll. Here was our experience:

Son #1
Went to neighborhood yochien and elementary school (both of which were excellent), then attended ASIJ for middle school because we needed to address his English ability. Finally went to the US for high school and is (next month!) graduating from a US university with a double major in Economics and Japanese.

Son #2
Also went to neighborhood yochien and elementary school. Was rejected by ASIJ which really surprised us (well, it made us angry enough to change our education plans) and so went to the US for middle school and high school. Currently attending a US university majoring in computer science and math.

Son #3
Did the neighborhood schools until 5th grade and then moved to the US with his brothers for subsequent schooling. Currently a high school junior.

This arrangement made us an international family in the sense that everyone spent time in both Japan and the US each year and my travel to the US was increased. We saved a small fortune in not sending the kids to ASIJ (make that a large fortune; college has actually been cheaper than the yearly ASIJ bill because of scholarships).

TokyoWart wrote: ↑Mon Nov 15, 2021 2:08 pm My wife and I are both US citizens but all three of our boys were born in Japan and all have maintained fluency in Japanese. We went through all three of the options in the poll. Here was our experience:

Son #1
Went to neighborhood yochien and elementary school (both of which were excellent), then attended ASIJ for middle school because we needed to address his English ability. Finally went to the US for high school and is (next month!) graduating from a US university with a double major in Economics and Japanese.

Son #2
Also went to neighborhood yochien and elementary school. Was rejected by ASIJ which really surprised us (well, it made us angry enough to change our education plans) and so went to the US for middle school and high school. Currently attending a US university majoring in computer science and math.

Son #3
Did the neighborhood schools until 5th grade and then moved to the US with his brothers for subsequent schooling. Currently a high school junior.

This arrangement made us an international family in the sense that everyone spent time in both Japan and the US each year and my travel to the US was increased. We saved a small fortune in not sending the kids to ASIJ (make that a large fortune; college has actually been cheaper than the yearly ASIJ bill because of scholarships).

Did you send them to boarding school, or to live with relatives?

Did you send them to boarding school, or to live with relatives?

For the first year they lived with relatives then my wife bought a home in the US and stayed with them there during the school term.

TokyoWart wrote: ↑Tue Nov 16, 2021 1:53 am

Did you send them to boarding school, or to live with relatives?

For the first year they lived with relatives then my wife bought a home in the US and stayed with them there during the school term.

Ah, I see. This is a very expensive route that probably isn`t open to most families, but I very glad it worked out for yours.

Private schools such as ASIJ are very expensive and competitive as you mentioned.

To limit potential stress on our son, and to take advantage of a great Elementary education system, we decided to aim for entry into private school from junior high. We hope this is the right decision. There is a lot of pressure to start with escalator schools from hoikuen age. I have serious doubts about this approach. Especially because the Japanese system is very good up until the junior/senior years.

Both of our kids were born and raised in Japan as balanced Japanese & English bilinguals. That took a lot of effort. They went to public hoikuen from 6 months of age and then to the public elementary school. Then entered international school, which was based upon a standard Japanese curriculum but offered a wide range of English education levels right up to native speaker level to cater for the returnees and Haafus enrolled. During the next 6 years their limited English reading and writing skills really developed. Both graduated from Japanese universities. The elder child also did a masters in America before returning.

With brand name universities and bilingual skills on their CVs, both got multiple job offers from prestigious companies, with the elder electing for an international firm and the younger for a Japanese multinational that covers her expensive rent and even springs for business class, in airlines of her choosing, for business trips longer than 4 hours. Not bad for a 26 year old!

We spent tons of money on their education but it has resulted in well-paid, stable careers with lots of potential for the future. Their bilingualism (and the second passport) ensures they have options beyond Japan should they want to escape. Now it’s the turn of our kids to navigate the educational options for their children. The circle of life, etc.

EmaxisSlim Cultist wrote: ↑Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:09 am Generally, international schools are not recommended if you plan to remain in Japan. These schools do not prepare students for Japanese universities, and the vast vast majority of pupils attend university abroad.

Public high schools are very competitive, and difficult to get into. Privates, high schools are all over the map, from best to worst.

It is a very difficult choice to make. However, I believe choosing an international school often decides your child's future for them. As it makes it very difficult for them to attend university in Japan.

I guess one other factor I didn't mention is that both my wife and I are non-Japanese. So although we live in Japan (and likely will stay), and although I understand your point, it's a question that goes to the very identity of our children. And the flip side of what you're saying is that I've come across half-Japanese and other non-Japanese kids who don't look Japanese, but can't speak/function adequately outside of Japanese. These are not the global citizens I want to raise. And yes, home life and parenting will counterbalance things, but the influence of education, and cultural indoctrination via education, looms large in my mind. And so I wrestle with this... thankfully have a few more years to think it through.

One thing that I think is quite important within a bilingual environment is for a kid to have perfect competency in one or the other language (and culture).

I've met a couple kids/young adults here who grew up in mixed situations. Trouble is, they were masters of neither--not fully competent in Japanese, or in English. I'm not sure how this happened (I was not close enough, not enough long term contact), and I don't know if they have since recovered, all or partially, or enough, whatever that might be.

Just a minor heads up, ymmv.

One thing that I think is quite important within a bilingual environment is for a kid to have perfect competency in one or the other language (and culture).

I've met a couple kids/young adults here who grew up in mixed situations. Trouble is, they were masters of neither--not fully competent in Japanese, or in English. I'm not sure how this happened (I was not close enough, not enough long term contact), and I don't know if they have since recovered, all or partially, or enough, whatever that might be.

Just a minor heads up, ymmv.

Agreed 100%! Bilingualism comes in all forms and while many people desire it, they should always appreciate that possessing native level competence is one language has got to be better than being fluent in two or more languages, but with higher order skills like reading and writing stuck at 15 year old levels for life. Can you imagine living without a language you can regard as your very own? Throw in the angst of puberty and developing sexuality and you are sure to have one extremely confused individual on your hands.

I believe most kids need to go through one system until university graduation. Then if overseas calls, a second degree or postgrad studies can be encouraged. Perhaps there are exceptions who can succeed without following this pattern, but there are also kids around who lack a native language. I don’t think they are envied, by anyone.

Tokyo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 19, 2021 12:24 am

One thing that I think is quite important within a bilingual environment is for a kid to have perfect competency in one or the other language (and culture).

I've met a couple kids/young adults here who grew up in mixed situations. Trouble is, they were masters of neither--not fully competent in Japanese, or in English. I'm not sure how this happened (I was not close enough, not enough long term contact), and I don't know if they have since recovered, all or partially, or enough, whatever that might be.

Just a minor heads up, ymmv.

Agreed 100%! Bilingualism comes in all forms and while many people desire it, they should always appreciate that possessing native level competence is one language has got to be better than being fluent in two or more languages, but with higher order skills like reading and writing stuck at 15 year old levels for life. Can you imagine living without a language you can regard as your very own? Throw in the angst of puberty and developing sexuality and you are sure to have one extremely confused individual on your hands.

I believe most kids need to go through one system until university graduation. Then if overseas calls, a second degree or postgrad studies can be encouraged. Perhaps there are exceptions who can succeed without following this pattern, but there are also kids around who lack a native language. I don’t think they are envied, by anyone.

It is important to remember that bilingualism isn`t some special, unique skill. The majority of people on this planet speak more than 1 language. Monolinguals are the minority.

All things being equal all children have the ability to learn both languages at an early age, with the only real difficulty being an occasionally perceived language delay in their "native" language in some cases.

Japanese attitude towards bilingualism in the public system is very shocking and antithetical to existing research, data, and commonsense.