RetireJapan

EmaxisSlim Cultist wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:49 pm

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:50 pm
My spreadsheet has 5 different patterns:
1. Infinite NISA rollovers (we don't know if this is possible)
2. 1 time NISA, tokutei afterwards
3. TNISA
4. NISA rollover to TNISA
5. NISA with a rollver then rollover to TNISA

Of these 5, the just TNISA option gives you the least return

I am not disagreeing with your math, but this is all assuming a 1,200,000 yen lump sum investment in January?

I think NISA (regular) has always been considered the best option in that scenario.

However, the vast majority of users cannot achieve this. That is why T-NOSA + Tokutei is usually suggested as a default.

That math certainly shows that it`s not worth losing too much sleep over either way.

Yeah, 1.2M every January. Instinctively, you think NISA is the better option if you have the funds but this basically shows that the longer no-tax period does bring TNISA quite close (at 20 years you can make the argument that TNISA is better). Its why I don't recommend NISA on this forum anymore unless its for users with only a short period for investment.

And at the end of the day, actual stock market movements will make enough of a difference to tip the scales either way.

So I personally consider it basically a wash and then move on to which one suits the person's goals, situation, and temperament better (people that like to tinker and choose their own investments -> ordinary NISA, normal people who aren't really interested in investing -> tsumitate NISA + tokutei).

just to ck on the meaning of the last 2 comments do you mean that investing in the tsumitate NISA at 400k and the lumpsum NISA 1.2mil will after 20yrs give you the same amount in the end?
doesnt that mean lumpsum nisa is kind of pointless then?i was just about to invest in it..

bryanc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:06 am just to ck on the meaning of the last 2 comments do you mean that investing in the tsumitate NISA at 400k and the lumpsum NISA 1.2mil will after 20yrs give you the same amount in the end?
doesnt that mean lumpsum nisa is kind of pointless then?i was just about to invest in it..

No, of course not. All of the assumptions have you putting in 1.2M. With the TNISA, the assumption is 400k TNISA + 800k tokutei account. Its an exercise to figure out what is the most efficient with your money all things being equal (an assumed 5% annual rate of growth across the board).

NISA is still good if you have a shorter time period or you're the type that likes investing in normal stocks or active mutual funds.

thanks-i thought it was odd!

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 1:50 pm
My spreadsheet has 5 different patterns:
1. Infinite NISA rollovers (we don't know if this is possible)
2. 1 time NISA, tokutei afterwards
3. TNISA
4. NISA rollover to TNISA
5. NISA with a rollver then rollover to TNISA

Of these 5, the just TNISA option gives you the least return

Thanks for posting this. I went back to a spreadsheet I made and noticed I had dropped a clanger in my calculations for Tsumitate NISA. Now I've fixed it, the figures seem to line up with yours which is reassuring.

My conclusion was that there isn't much difference between regular NISA and Tsumitate NISA + taxable over a 20 year time frame, but the regular NISA wins out for shorter investment periods.

i applied for a lumpsum nisa,if i wanted to change to tsumitate nisa for this yr(havent invested the lumpsum yet) would it make it in time for this yr?
how long does the change take?

bryanc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:38 am i applied for a lumpsum nisa,if i wanted to change to tsumitate nisa for this yr(havent invested the lumpsum yet) would it make it in time for this yr?
how long does the change take?

You can apply to change next year's NISA from October or so each year. You can't change this year's NISA.

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:40 am

bryanc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:38 am i applied for a lumpsum nisa,if i wanted to change to tsumitate nisa for this yr(havent invested the lumpsum yet) would it make it in time for this yr?
how long does the change take?

You can apply to change next year's NISA from October or so each year. You can't change this year's NISA.

If Bryan is yet to invest anything this year I think they might be able to change it. If I'm reading this right..

NISA口座とつみたてNISA口座は年ごとに切り替えることができます。
また、NISA制度の利用年において年間非課税枠を使用していない場合には、年の途中であっても、NISA口座とつみたてNISA口座の切り替えが可能です。

https://www.resonabank.co.jp/kojin/nisa ... _0002.html

Moneymatters wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:09 am If Bryan is yet to invest anything this year I think they might be able to change it. If I'm reading this right..

NISA口座とつみたてNISA口座は年ごとに切り替えることができます。
また、NISA制度の利用年において年間非課税枠を使用していない場合には、年の途中であっても、NISA口座とつみたてNISA口座の切り替えが可能です。

https://www.resonabank.co.jp/kojin/nisa ... _0002.html

Oooh, interesting. We've used all our NISAs already this year so can't check this unfortunately. Anyone able to?