How worthwhile is a frozen UK state pension???!!!

[IloveJapan]

Hi again guys,

Did other people who applied to do voluntary contributions (class 2) have to give their employment history for just the past 3 years or their entire time in Japan? And what sort of employment details/documents did you give? In my case I have been here for decades.
Also, I am gainfully employed but I would expect that anyone on class 2 who finds themselves between jobs at a future date, informs HMRC so that they are switched to class 3, is that correct?
If I ever apply to do voluntary contributions, I just want to make sure I am following the rules properly.

When I called HMRC in the past, they never really gave clear answers

[KyushuWoozy]

I gave the whole lot from the time I left Uk 20+ years ago to now (worked in various countries during that period). Just gave employer info: name, address etc, no documents required. I think they need full info because I noticed I wasn't credited with contributions for the times I was in between jobs so they calculate in quite some detail.

[IloveJapan]

Thank you for your reply, KyushuWoozy. Sounds quite onerous getting together work info from lots of different countries.
Was the employment info you gave them on a monthly basis?
Wouldn’t you have instead paid class 3 for those times in between jobs, rather than not being credited at all?
Also, I am a full-time worker but what would the contribution system be if a person did part-time or freelance work?

As a complete aside, and considering an entry you made in another thread, I’d just like to say that based on legal changes in 2013 and 2016, a spouse can no longer get a pension based on your contributions (they have to have made their own independent contributions) and also can no longer inherit any pension from you (if you reach retirement age after 2016).

I’m pretty sure about this, but if sb thinks differently let me know.

[Beaglehound]

Regarding the situation for non full time workers, I am self-employed and was told to pay at the class 2 rate. I probably should have given details of clients along with the NI form but didn’t read the guidelines closely enough so didn’t. The rules, typically for HMRC, seem to be opaque and complex and I think much depends on whose desk the form lands.

[KyushuWoozy]

Sounds quite onerous getting together work info from lots of different countries.
Was the employment info you gave them on a monthly basis?
Wouldn’t you have instead paid class 3 for those times in between jobs, rather than not being credited at all?
Also, I am a full-time worker but what would the contribution system be if a person did part-time or freelance work?

It was a bit onerous, but well worth it I think (assuming I make it to pensionable age). I guess in total I spent 30-40 hours on this whole project; researching online (including this forum), digging out old reference letters and CVs to gather employment details, form-filling, hanging on the telephone. Sorry, not sure of the answers to your two questions, hopefully someone else can jump in here.

a spouse can no longer get a pension based on your contributions (they have to have made their own independent contributions) and also can no longer inherit any pension from you

Thanks I'll update the original post for others who might read it in the future.

[IloveJapan]

Thank you KyushuWoozy. Would anyone else on the forum be able to comment on the following questions regarding application for voluntary NICs?

1) Was the employment info you gave them on a monthly basis?
2) Did you apply to pay class 2 for time in employment and class 3 for any gaps? (All the while informing HMRC of changes in employment status)
3) Also, I am a full-time worker but what would the contribution system be if a person did part-time or freelance work?

Thank you, everyone

[goodandbadjapan]

I think I just told them that I was employed by X company in Japan for 3 years and that I have been self-employed from when I finished there until now. So I needed the dates of employment but not sure what you mean by 'on a monthly basis'. My case was probably a bit easier because I haven't had many different jobs. I think I also had to tell them where I was employed and for how long immediately prior to leaving the UK. Didn't need to show any proof, but they could obviously check my UK N.I. record against my dates of employment given.

[kuma]

I'm freelance and pay Class 2s. Like the previous poster, my situation is less complex than yours. I've been resident in Japan for 2+ years and have been self-employed from the date of arrival.

1) Was the employment info you gave them on a monthly basis?

I gave exact dates when I applied. The guidance (below, from the link upthread containing form NI38) states 'dates', and my understanding is that NICs are calculated weekly, so I think the person who inputs your data wants exact start and finish dates, and then the system will crunch the numbers to see how many weeks of Class 2s/3s you are eligible to backpay:

Question 18 If you have had more than 1 employer since leaving the UK, please supply a list in date order on a separate sheet of paper showing:
• names and addresses of your employer(s) overseas
• the date each employment started and ended
• the country you were working in
• names and addresses of any UK employer(s) between overseas employment
• the date each UK employment started and ended
• the dates of paid or unpaid leave in the UK or overseas
• the names and dates of any benefit you claimed in the UK between overseas employment

I've had some employments on top of my self-employment and so also supplied names/addresses/dates for these. The form was inadequate even in my relatively simple circumstances so most of the information was contained in a covering letter.

2) Did you apply to pay class 2 for time in employment and class 3 for any gaps? (All the while informing HMRC of changes in employment status)

It's as clear as mud, but I think technically on the form you apply to voluntarily pay either Class 2 or Class 3 NICs (Section 6) based on your current circumstances (though of course HMRC could disagree with your assessment of which class you want to pay!). Then you also have the option to check a box if you 'want to know about any shortffall that you can pay' from previous years (their typo; Section 7). My experience was that when they eventually wrote back (~5 month wait), the main thrust of their letter was about the shortfalls, and the matter of being accepted for Class 2s from now on was buried as an aside.

Basically, hit them with all your info and they should figure out which bits qualify for Class 2 and which bits qualify for Class 3. Hats off to KyushuWoozy for compiling two decades of data!

3) Also, I am a full-time worker but what would the contribution system be if a person did part-time or freelance work?

Being (mainly) freelance made my paperwork relatively easy!

[IloveJapan]

Hi, goodandbadJapan,

When I said “monthly basis” I was asking whether people gave employment history on a monthly basis (I.e. from month/year to month/year) or simply on an annual basis (I.e. from x year to y year). Probably the former, I guess? Or in fact, do they need the precise day of the precise month you started and finished?

Were you allowed to do class 2 NICs for freelance work? Does it depend on the number of hours? I am a full-time worker, but I don’t know what might happen to that position a few years down the road...or eventually I might have to change my work style for my child...so I was wondering what would happen to the NICs at that time.

[IloveJapan]

Thank you for the long post, Kuma, where you shared your experiences, I’ve just noticed it now!