RetireJapan

I actively try to avoid places that only take cash.
I only withdraw ~10,000 once a month and more often than not I have some cash left at the end of the month.
The convenience when paying, the points accumulated and the ease to keep track of the expenses is what drives my decision.

As others have recommended, I use moneytree to keep my budget on track and I never spend money I do not have.

Last time I was in London there were a lot of 'no cash' businesses (market stalls, etc.).

The worry there was that a certain section of society (with bad credit, etc.) would then become a kind of underclass, unable to use certain shops and services...

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:33 am Last time I was in London there were a lot of 'no cash' businesses (market stalls, etc.).

The worry there was that a certain section of society (with bad credit, etc.) would then become a kind of underclass, unable to use certain shops and services...

Anyone can get a cashless card. It doesn’t have to be a credit card or issued by a bank. Many places take Oyster, for example. A bit like ICOCA or Suica here...

The way many are embracing a cashless society,is indicative of how many people are in life being socially bothered by simple transactions. Reduce my people interaction because it's a hassle.Oh, I don't want the aggravation of going into my pocket to get my wallet to give you cash by hand.What a pain.How can I have as little personal contact as possible is the M.O. of today. A cashless society,like alcohol or ciggies is bad.But the brainwashing to convince you it's a positive is real and started to take hold for the worst.

Cracaphat wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:00 pm The way many are embracing a cashless society,is indicative of how many people are in life being socially bothered by simple transactions. Reduce my people interaction because it's a hassle.Oh, I don't want the aggravation of going into my pocket to get my wallet to give you cash by hand.What a pain.How can I have as little personal contact as possible is the M.O. of today. A cashless society,like alcohol or ciggies is bad.But the brainwashing to convince you it's a positive is real and started to take hold for the worst.

I am not sure how paying via contact or by taking a picture of a QR code results in less human interaction? You even need to say "スイカでお願いします！"

Giving some ammo to the detractors of cashless

https://japantoday.com/category/crime/u ... zed-access

I think there are some benefits to both, however i do believe cash, or a debit card outstrips the benefits of going cashless.
I have already highlighted a few especially for people with ADHD, bipolar disorder, visually impaired, and people who can't control their finances.
On top of that we can see the impact on real people. As has already happened in the US, shops are refusing services to customers who
a) do not have or wish to have a smart phone
b) customers who only have cash. eg, unemployed, homeless,Pensioners.(note not all pensioners wish to use this tech.
This may even include children. If you notice how as the conversation moves down the thread, it is always from the adults perspective, and never from a child's perspective. At the moment, cash is fine.But if as in Sweden, everyone goes cashless, then those small interactions that you don't get from a digital exchange are lost.
What am I talking about? Well, I suppose it is all about the small psychological, "physical" aspects of money and people.
EG getting money from your purse, the physical handling of it, the physically handing it over to a child, and this bit is worth way more that any digital number, the eye contact and the huge smile you get back. Priceless! Numbers are just so abstract to a child, not a physical object, that physically and psychologically disappears or appear in physical savings. If there was no cash, how can we let kids practice/manage, with real money?

While of course you can say,スイカでお願いします, but we are spending time, looking at yet another screen, to then touch another machine, and never really look people in the eye, or even getting that smile or pass a small comment on the weather. We just become a "beep" or in the case of some shops. NO HUMANS.


On a practical side, not everyone wants to charge a smart phone, via another machine, or even a credit card, which I believe can take away an important psychological brake away from customers. Topping up an app, via a credit card, can lead young people to see what they have on the app as free cash. When the reality is, it is nothing of the sort, it is credit./Debt, and out of sight out of mind, will encourage them to increase their spending, and then face the spending hangover.

While we may debate the merits and demerit of such a system, we will happily debate and do research on how we can save, 1% or 2% on charges on IDeCO / NISA/ credit card and the great benefits it brings along with a pat on the back to confirm how smart we are, we seem to down play how the companies want us to spend that extra 1% or 2% more too, at the till, or grab that extra cookie at the Starbucks counter.

On another point that just came to mind, and that is the millions or billions of dollars, put into these accounts, claiming interest for the company.
It is not a big leap to see how they could move into the banking system, and get people to get payed directly into their system.
At the moment once our money is deposited into their cashless system, we are basically committed to spending it. We can't get it out.
I think Sony, and X box had similar problem with their digital systems. People had money in their accounts that nobody, could ever get back. They basically gave Sony, Microsoft their few dollars for free. Which you could not and would never do with a physical purchase. You could resell or swap your game or CD, giving it free extra value, but you can never do that with a digital product.

Another problem I for see why cash will always be around and that is....my phone is broken, I've lost my phone, I've run out of power, the systems down, being tracked, for them to sell our purchase info, to push advertising.
Maybe the Govs will legislate that a physical shop cannot refuse cash in the future.
I also believe workers pay tax 100 %, of the time, companies some of the time, but machines never pay tax. So for me..... I'll try and keep someone in a job.

There is one thing that cashless will never replace or help with, the ability to give someone a TIP, for them to keep it, away from the tax man, or even the company from using it to subsidise workers salaries.As has happened in the UK by some companies.

Shops not accepting cash is a practice that should simply be outlawed. I am actually surprised this is not already the case.

Cash is the form of currency created and recognized by the state. It gives everybody the equal freedom to participate in trade, with anything else being subject to having a membership of some sort that can be taken away at any time.

I am absolutely not sentimental when it comes to money and pretty happy with going cashless for convenience reasons, but would be very worried if there was a trend towards not accepting cash anymore. I'd expect the government to intervene in that case.

N00bster wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:47 pm Cash is the form of currency created and recognized by the state. It gives everybody the equal freedom to participate in trade, with anything else being subject to having a membership of some sort that can be taken away at any time.

This isn't quite true. The state issues the currency, one of the forms of that is cash, but it's only about 5% of the entire supply. They also issue some currency as bonds (less than 2% of supply). The others, which are the majority by far, are demand deposits. Deposits are regulated, and can't be "taken away at any time".

Source: https://www.boj.or.jp/en/statistics/out ... exms01.pdf

N00bster wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:47 pm Shops not accepting cash is a practice that should simply be outlawed. I am actually surprised this is not already the case.

Cash is the form of currency created and recognized by the state. It gives everybody the equal freedom to participate in trade, with anything else being subject to having a membership of some sort that can be taken away at any time.

I am absolutely not sentimental when it comes to money and pretty happy with going cashless for convenience reasons, but would be very worried if there was a trend towards not accepting cash anymore. I'd expect the government to intervene in that case.

adamu wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:38 pm

This isn't quite true. The state issues the currency, one of the forms of that is cash, but it's only about 5% of the entire supply. They also issue some currency as bonds (less than 2% of supply). The others, which are the majority by far, are demand deposits. Deposits are regulated, and can't be "taken away at any time".

Source: https://www.boj.or.jp/en/statistics/out ... exms01.pdf

I have to agree with N000bster, that it gives everyone an equal footing to participate in trade and every physical shop should accept cash.By freedom to participate in trade, I believe the poster is saying they are not being denied access to services and goods that would generally be accessible to any reasonable customer who wishes to purchase them at the customer level.Not the government level.(which is a different kind of beast altogether)
I would also go one step further. And that is, if they offer a discount to a customer on an App,it should be available at the counter too, and verbaly/visiually pointed out. The fact that a discount/app/ service discriminates against someone because they
A) can't read/understand Japanese.
B)can't get a smart phone
C) maybe visually/auditory disabled,
D/physically disabled,
E) people who had debt, could be excluded.
because the cashless system actually makes all shoppers spend more that they actually should, especially customers who may least afford it and the system can deny them the ability to save a few yen.

Thats why the psychology of nudging has gained so much traction.While the psychology of nudging is alway being promoted in a positive light for the customer, there are nudges that work to the benefit of the company, and to the detriment of the customer.

It as though we need to teach the next generation more about money management than ever before.