RetireJapan

@Telebroker

It looks like indeed the reason why it cost you 800 JPY and not 6,000 JPY as would be expected from an international transfer, is because it was a non-resident Japanese account.

The table linked in this post shows:

The PDF in my original post had it on the third page under 非居住者:
https://www.smbc.co.jp/kojin/fee/resour ... aikoku.pdf

Whereas this time's transfer used the table on the first page because it was just a normal US IBKR account, so not a Japanese non-domestic account.

So with this I've learned my lesson. Never send in USD from SMBC. In that case find somewhere cheap to convert and send so you end up sending JPY to the non-resident account.

Thanks again!

@Telebroker and to anyone else who this may interest,

regarding which method to use if you are stuck with USD in SMBC:

1. Using currency exchange in SMBC, seem to incur about 0.4x% fee.
2. Using Wise without conversion (Straight USD -> USD, to IBKR), has a fixed fee of about 4 USD AND a variable fee of 0.47%, which is very similar to the hit you get from doing currency exchange in SMBC.

So I don't see a reason to open up a Wise account for this kind of transfer.

Anyone is welcome to point out any thing I am missing here, of course. That would be greatly appreciated!

kanpanela wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 4:30 am @Telebroker and to anyone else who this may interest,

regarding which method to use if you are stuck with USD in SMBC:

1. Using currency exchange in SMBC, seem to incur about 0.4x% fee.
2. Using Wise without conversion (Straight USD -> USD, to IBKR), has a fixed fee of about 4 USD AND a variable fee of 0.47%, which is very similar to the hit you get from doing currency exchange in SMBC.

So I don't see a reason to open up a Wise account for this kind of transfer.

Anyone is welcome to point out any thing I am missing here, of course. That would be greatly appreciated!

I think I made a mistake in this comment.
Regarding the variable fee of Wise (item 2), it seems to stem from a currency exchange, so if there is a USD->USD transfer, only the fixed fee should occur. In this case it is much better than using SMBC to send to IBKR directly.
I tried creating a Wise account now to give it a go, we'll see how it goes.

kanpanela wrote: ↑Sun Jul 14, 2024 2:11 am

kanpanela wrote: ↑Sat Jul 13, 2024 4:30 am @Telebroker and to anyone else who this may interest,

regarding which method to use if you are stuck with USD in SMBC:

1. Using currency exchange in SMBC, seem to incur about 0.4x% fee.
2. Using Wise without conversion (Straight USD -> USD, to IBKR), has a fixed fee of about 4 USD AND a variable fee of 0.47%, which is very similar to the hit you get from doing currency exchange in SMBC.

So I don't see a reason to open up a Wise account for this kind of transfer.

Anyone is welcome to point out any thing I am missing here, of course. That would be greatly appreciated!

I think I made a mistake in this comment.
Regarding the variable fee of Wise (item 2), it seems to stem from a currency exchange, so if there is a USD->USD transfer, only the fixed fee should occur. In this case it is much better than using SMBC to send to IBKR directly.
I tried creating a Wise account now to give it a go, we'll see how it goes.

Did not go well. The account was made but when I tried to create transfers I discovered that:

1. Transfers USD->USD/JPY get an overseas bank account to transfer to. This is what I was trying to avoid in the first place (6,000 JPY fee) so no point in not using SMBC directly
2. Transfers JPY->JPY/USD do get a Japanese bank account, but then I could have made the transfer directly from SMBC to the non-resident account for a fixed 800 JPY (and a variable fee if I need to convert USD to JPY first)

If going for approach (1) it would be better to use SMBC directly.
If using approach (2) perhaps Wise is marginally cheaper in the fixed fees. But perhaps we're only talking about a couple hundred yen for a transfer that is not that frequent. The conversion fees, surprisingly enough seem to be the same at around 0.4x% in both SMBC and Wise.

Regarding whether to use approach (1) or (2), it depends on the amount transferred, whether or not it cause the variable fee to bypass the 6,000 JPY fixed fee for an international transfer (that is not to a non-resident account)

Hi kanpanela,
only looked into this post now again and see that you made some more attempts with interesting results. Thanks for sharing. To complete the picture, just replies to the two open queries raised:

Perhaps sending to such non-resident accounts is not considered an international transfer for the purposes of calculating fees?

You have established that for SMBC it is priced per the special line item with JPY 800. For customers of other banks: This varies and as far as I had researched, most competitors don't seem to have a special fee for JPY transfers to non-resident's account; they treat this as an expensive international transfer.

That is what I'm tempted to try next. Wise sounds like the simplest option, but you listed at the tail of your list of suggestions after a "or perhaps". Is there any gotcha I'm missing here or is there no deep meaning behind the phrasing?

I just wanted to group correctly, as Wise and Revolute don't hold a banking license in Japan (as of now) but are only licensed for foreign money transfers. This may play a role in their offerings & pricing. So just keep it in the back of your mind.

Regarding whether to use approach (1) or (2), it depends on the amount transferred, whether or not it cause the variable fee to bypass the 6,000 JPY fixed fee for an international transfer (that is not to a non-resident account)

For fresh starters: Use option (2)b, meaning JPY-JPY transfer SMBC->IBKR non-resident JPY account, only at IBKR convert JPY into USD.
For starters with fresh IBSJ brokerage accounts: (2)c, meaning JPY-JPY transfer SMBC->IBSJ resident JPY account (low domestic fee), only at IBSJ purchase relevant security, e.g. in USD with IBSJ automatically converting from JPY into security noting currency. [Holding USD cash only seems not possible].