Kokumin Hoken reductions for dependents?

[jane doe]

Follow-up to my original post.
Once the tax return (Kakutei Shinkoku) filtered down to my ward office, they adjusted my Kenko hoken payments down by about Y5000 a month, my care insurance (Kaigo Hoken) by about Y2000 a month, and also my residence tax by about Y18,000 a quarter. All of which is still painful, but a definite improvement on the initial bill. This does contradict what they misinformed me in the ward office, which I mentioned above. Luckily I was pretty sure that lower income on my tax return would eventually reduce my bill, so I just nodded, went away and bided my time. Lesson of this - if in doubt get a second, then a third opinion. Then trust your own knowledge and experience if what they told you doesn't equate.

As I mentioned maybe on a different thread, my employer failed to send me my documentation in time to apply to continue on Shakai Hoken for the moment (called Nin-in Keizoku). They were actually in breach of their legal requirement to send me this document within seven days of forcibly retiring me. My union also failed to tell me about this option, which is why this was a very bitter experience. Even with the lower health insurance (Kenko Hoken) figure of around Y38,000 a month, I am still nearly Y100,000 out of pocket just for this first year as a result. (In the second year, it may work out cheaper on Kokumin Kenko Hoken). Considering that my hope had been to continue working and pay into Kosei Nenkin for another year to boost my eventual pension, this was a nasty experience.

Add to that the fact that for us oldies, even if we are out of work and have been paying unemployment insurance (Koyo Hoken) for over a quarter of a century, instead of getting a percentage of our salary for an extended period while we look for work, we just get a lump sum to cover 50 days and are sent on our merry way. And no wish to help us look for work either. I was summarily processed through a separate "oldies" track at Hello Work. They didn't seem to know what to say when I said I was wanting to work.

A further twist to this - I went to the City Hall to ask about what benefits and goodies there were for oldies like myself. Like discount travel on public transport and suchlike (coming from the UK where the Freedom Pass in London gives the over-60's free travel on ALL forms of public transport, I sort of thought I was going to be admitted to the seniors club). I was shocked to learn that the only discount is for the over-70's, and then only on Yokohama buses and the Yokohama subway. And it seems that they want to axe even this little perk, because there are getting to be more and more of us likely to make use of it. So what exactly have all my taxes been going for, all these years I've been paying them to the city? Instead I got a pretty "YokoTomo" card, which when I enquired, the nice lady explained would give me benefits like 5% off my dry cleaning bill at selected outlets. No discount at city facilities, not even a senior discount at public sports centres.

WTF! I really don't know why more seniors here don't kick up about the situation here. The public perception seems to be that Boomers are living the good life. I guess if you get a golden parachute, it would ease the pain of some of these things. But for someone who was cast out against my will and without any final payout, and finding doors to employment in Japan closed, because age, it seems like a parallel universe.

[Tkydon]

Considering that my hope had been to continue working and pay into Kosei Nenkin for another year to boost my eventual pension, this was a nasty experience.

You should go to the local Pension Office in your ward and apply for Voluntary Basic Pension Contributions to age 65, currently Y16,520 per month.
You can increase the number of qualifying months for the Basic Pension entitlement calculation. You can see how the Basic Pension portion is calculated here (Kiso Nenkin Only):
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/ ... nsion.html
See the 'Voluntary Coverage' section.
See the 'Benefits' - 'Old-age Basic Pension' Section.

You can actually apply to start to receive the Japanese Old-Age Pension from age 60, with some penalty.
See the Option of “Early Payment” or “Delayed Payment”
The Discount Factors applied are here (1 - % shown) (1 - 30% = 70% at age 60):
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/service/jukyu/ ... 21-01.html
(BUT this will be calculated on the number of eligible months at age 60...)

to 100% at age 65
(If you pay the Voluntary contributions from 60-64, this will be calculated on the number of eligible months at age 65...)

Or you can apply to start to receive the Japanese Old-Age Pension after age 65 up to 75, with some benefit.
See the Option of “Early Payment” or “Delayed Payment”
The Multiplication Factors applied are here (1 + % shown) (1 + 42% = 142% at age 70) or (1 + 84% = 184% at age 75):
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/service/jukyu/ ... 1-02v.html
(If you pay the Voluntary contributions from 60-64, this will still be calculated on the number of eligible months at age 65...)

Remember if you were to claim now, you would receive your pension on today's number of contribution months, but if you wait until 65 and make voluntary contributions, you can increase the number of eligible months by upto another 60 months, and get 100% of the pension amount calculated based on that number of eligible months. Past age 65, the number of eligible months will not increase but the multipliers will still be relevant based on the amount of eligible months at age 65.

Add to that the fact that for us oldies, even if we are out of work and have been paying unemployment insurance (Koyo Hoken) for over a quarter of a century, instead of getting a percentage of our salary for an extended period while we look for work, we just get a lump sum to cover 50 days and are sent on our merry way. And no wish to help us look for work either. I was summarily processed through a separate "oldies" track at Hello Work. They didn't seem to know what to say when I said I was wanting to work.

Yes, Hello Work is the equivalent of UK Unemployment Benefit or US Social Security, and is payable for upto nearly a year, depending on how long you were employed.
You should tell them you wish to continue to work and claim as much as you can for as long as you can.
If you left employment due to the employer's reason, you can register after 7 days and start to receive benefit immediately thereafter.
If you left employment due to your reason, you can register after 7 days but have to wait 1 month before you can start to receive benefits.

Benefits are tax-free, but with a maximum limit and duration, so equivalent of maybe 1.4 times+ that in Taxable salary (including discounted healthcare, etc., in the next tax year...).

Benefits are calculated per Calendar Day (includes weekends and public holidays), but drop off after age 60;
age 45-59 to a maximum of Y8,490 per day, dropping after age 60 to
age 60-65 to a maximum of Y7,310 per day,
to a max of 330 Calendar Days, depending on how long and how much you were earning and paying in Unemployment Insurance.
(roughly equivalent to pretax income of Y250,000 per month or Y3,000,000 per year).

The Lump-Sum payment you received from your employer may in fact been part of the Pension, and is very highly tax-advantaged. It is taxed completely separately from any year's income taxes, and at a very advantageous tax rate, and maybe completely tax-free. The calculation is as follows:

Retirement Lump Sum Taxation
Special Deduction = Number of Years of Service to 20 years x Y400,000 + Number of Years of Service over 20 years x Y700,000
Taxable Income = (Retirement Lump Sum - Special Deduction) / 2
Taxed at the Standard Marginal Income Tax Rates

Income Tax Rates 総所得金額の合計、復興特別所得税、住民税の税率
Band (Taxable Income) - Marginal Tax rate (％) National + Reconstruction + Residents' Taxes = Total - Max National & Residents' Taxes in Band Yen
Under 1,949,000 - 5% + 0.105% + 10% = 15.105% = Y97,705 + Y195,000
1,950,000 to 3,299,000 - 10% + 0.21% 10% = 20.21% = Y135,284 + Y135,000
3,300,000 to 6,949,000 - 20% + 0.42% 10% = 30.42% = Y731,553 + Y365,000
6,950,000 to 8,999,000 - 23% + 0.483% 10% = 33.483% = Y472,490 + Y205,000
9,000,000 to 17,999,000 - 33% + 0.693% 10% = 43.693% = Y982,158 + Y900,000
18,000,000 to 39,999,000 - 40% + 0.84% 10% = 50.84% = Y8,818,480 + Y2,200,000
Over 40,000,000 - 45% + 0.945% 10% = 55.945% No Limit...

Therefore the Tax Bands are actually only half the rate shown and twice as wide as shown on the original Retirement Lump Sum amount.

A further twist to this - I went to the City Hall to ask about what benefits and goodies there were for oldies like myself. Like discount travel on public transport and suchlike (coming from the UK where the Freedom Pass in London gives the over-60's free travel on ALL forms of public transport, I sort of thought I was going to be admitted to the seniors club). I was shocked to learn that the only discount is for the over-70's, and then only on Yokohama buses and the Yokohama subway. And it seems that they want to axe even this little perk, because there are getting to be more and more of us likely to make use of it. So what exactly have all my taxes been going for, all these years I've been paying them to the city? Instead I got a pretty "YokoTomo" card, which when I enquired, the nice lady explained would give me benefits like 5% off my dry cleaning bill at selected outlets. No discount at city facilities, not even a senior discount at public sports centres.

Under Article 17 of the UK Japan Tax Treaty, any UK Pension, when you receive it, will only be taxable in Japan.
https://www.mof.go.jp/tax_policy/summar ... n-UKEN.pdf
Other Articles may apply depending on your circumstances.

Japanese Tax rate on Public Pensions (UK National Old-Age Pension qualifies) is very advantageous. See 'Calculating the Public Pension Plan Deduction (Calculation Table)' on Page 8 of this doc for Tokyo:
https://www.tax.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/book/ ... k2022e.pdf
So the actual bands and rates are reduced...

WTF! I really don't know why more seniors here don't kick up about the situation here. The public perception seems to be that Boomers are living the good life. I guess if you get a golden parachute, it would ease the pain of some of these things. But for someone who was cast out against my will and without any final payout, and finding doors to employment in Japan closed, because age, it seems like a parallel universe.

I feel your pain.

[Wales4rugbyWC23]

Follow-up to my original post.
Once the tax return (Kakutei Shinkoku) filtered down to my ward office, they adjusted my Kenko hoken payments down by about Y5000 a month, my care insurance (Kaigo Hoken) by about Y2000 a month, and also my residence tax by about Y18,000 a quarter. All of which is still painful, but a definite improvement on the initial bill. This does contradict what they misinformed me in the ward office, which I mentioned above. Luckily I was pretty sure that lower income on my tax return would eventually reduce my bill, so I just nodded, went away and bided my time. Lesson of this - if in doubt get a second, then a third opinion. Then trust your own knowledge and experience if what they told you doesn't equate.

As I mentioned maybe on a different thread, my employer failed to send me my documentation in time to apply to continue on Shakai Hoken for the moment (called Nin-in Keizoku). They were actually in breach of their legal requirement to send me this document within seven days of forcibly retiring me. My union also failed to tell me about this option, which is why this was a very bitter experience. Even with the lower health insurance (Kenko Hoken) figure of around Y38,000 a month, I am still nearly Y100,000 out of pocket just for this first year as a result. (In the second year, it may work out cheaper on Kokumin Kenko Hoken). Considering that my hope had been to continue working and pay into Kosei Nenkin for another year to boost my eventual pension, this was a nasty experience.

Add to that the fact that for us oldies, even if we are out of work and have been paying unemployment insurance (Koyo Hoken) for over a quarter of a century, instead of getting a percentage of our salary for an extended period while we look for work, we just get a lump sum to cover 50 days and are sent on our merry way. And no wish to help us look for work either. I was summarily processed through a separate "oldies" track at Hello Work. They didn't seem to know what to say when I said I was wanting to work.

A further twist to this - I went to the City Hall to ask about what benefits and goodies there were for oldies like myself. Like discount travel on public transport and suchlike (coming from the UK where the Freedom Pass in London gives the over-60's free travel on ALL forms of public transport, I sort of thought I was going to be admitted to the seniors club). I was shocked to learn that the only discount is for the over-70's, and then only on Yokohama buses and the Yokohama subway. And it seems that they want to axe even this little perk, because there are getting to be more and more of us likely to make use of it. So what exactly have all my taxes been going for, all these years I've been paying them to the city? Instead I got a pretty "YokoTomo" card, which when I enquired, the nice lady explained would give me benefits like 5% off my dry cleaning bill at selected outlets. No discount at city facilities, not even a senior discount at public sports centres.

WTF! I really don't know why more seniors here don't kick up about the situation here. The public perception seems to be that Boomers are living the good life. I guess if you get a golden parachute, it would ease the pain of some of these things. But for someone who was cast out against my will and without any final payout, and finding doors to employment in Japan closed, because age, it seems like a parallel universe.

You are a Brit? Please tell me you were paying your UK state pension? I think your Japanese state pension problems might disappear.

Health situation here so much better than the UK, especially with elderly people. I know it is a chunk of change especially when you are over 40 years old, and still have to pay when you are retired, but in terms of access and outcomes beats the UK hands down.

[jane doe]

I am 65, so cannot pay any more into Kokumin Nenkin. That's why I wanted to continue working for another year or two and pay into Kosei Nenkin, both deferring starting to collect pension and using mine and the employer's contributions to boost my eventual pension.
At 65 the door is slammed in your face.

As for unemployment insurance/Koyo Hoken, as I mentioned, if you are 65 and cast out of work, all you get is a one-off 50 days' worth payment of unemployment insurance. Because 65. If my employer had thrown me out a week earlier, I could have actually claimed for a period of months, related to my salary. I was uninformed about the age cut-off, so this was a rude shock.

And as I mentioned in my post, I got no did not get any lump-sum final payment from my employer to be very highly tax-advantaged on, despite working there for 21 years. They do pay it to Japanese staff who are all on 正社員/Seishain contracts though.

UK pension? It's spotty and a work in progress. At present, because I have lived out of the UK for so much of my life, I only have 9 years' full contributions. I hope to sort this, but I'm not there yet. Btw, the International Pension Centre say the average waiting time before they open your file is currently 46 weeks. They already lost the first application which I sent by EMS and Japan Post claims they received.

I agree about some of the good points of the Japanese health system compared to the current state of the UK's, but the benefits of good health treatment are dampened a bit if the health/care insurance premiums mean you don't have the income to feed yourself properly.

[Wales4rugbyWC23]

I am 65, so cannot pay any more into Kokumin Nenkin. That's why I wanted to continue working for another year or two and pay into Kosei Nenkin, both deferring starting to collect pension and using mine and the employer's contributions to boost my eventual pension.
At 65 the door is slammed in your face.

As for unemployment insurance/Koyo Hoken, as I mentioned, if you are 65 and cast out of work, all you get is a one-off 50 days' worth payment of unemployment insurance. Because 65. If my employer had thrown me out a week earlier, I could have actually claimed for a period of months, related to my salary. I was uninformed about the age cut-off, so this was a rude shock.

And as I mentioned in my post, I got no did not get any lump-sum final payment from my employer to be very highly tax-advantaged on, despite working there for 21 years. They do pay it to Japanese staff who are all on 正社員/Seishain contracts though.

UK pension? It's spotty and a work in progress. At present, because I have lived out of the UK for so much of my life, I only have 9 years' full contributions. I hope to sort this, but I'm not there yet. Btw, the International Pension Centre say the average waiting time before they open your file is currently 46 weeks. They already lost the first application which I sent by EMS and Japan Post claims they received.

I agree about some of the good points of the Japanese health system compared to the current state of the UK's, but the benefits of good health treatment are dampened a bit if the health/care insurance premiums mean you don't have the income to feed yourself properly.

A phone call to HMRC helps to speed the process along. I think you can make six years back payments. So you could possibly be looking at half of the state pension. You need 35 years for the full British state pension.