RetireJapan

One thing I wonder about silver is, on a weight basis, it is much lighter than gold, am I right?

Eg to store a similar value of gold versus silver, the gold is heavier but much more compact.

Personally I don’t have any physical metal (except maybe some silver cutlery), but I was wondering how silver lovers think about that.

I use Japanese futures to meddle with gold, platinum and previously silver, but I also found the liquidity for silver is rubbish, whereas gold and platinum both have “mini” contracts, which makes them more accessible too.

One day I hope to be able to stroke a bar of platinum or gold, but not sure I will find my way there with silver.

sutebayashi wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 11:56 am One thing I wonder about silver is, on a weight basis, it is much lighter than gold, am I right?

Eg to store a similar value of gold versus silver, the gold is heavier but much more compact.

1oz silver weighs the same as 1oz gold...

I'm no chemist but as coins they both look about equally "compact" too

I think what you mean is that to store the same value as 1oz gold in silver you'd need to store 80oz silver, simply because it's worth less, so you need more of it

I'm no chemist but as coins they both look about equally "compact" too

I think what you mean is that to store the same value as 1oz gold in silver you'd need to store 80oz silver, simply because it's worth less, so you need more of it

I think gold is more than 100x more valuable per oz than silver, and twice as dense/compact (he's right on that score), so I guess you need 50x less space to store gold than silver.
https://edrsilver.com/news-media/media/ ... an-silver/

Not sure how many of us are measuring up our cellars to fit in bullion though

Since gold is a non-productive asset, if you're paying high fees, your losing out long term. Funds are the only logical choice to avoid high fees and storage risk.

All that doomsday talk and guaranteed delivery in emergencies is nonsense in my opinion.
Don't expect much in the long term from this speculation. Here is the historic data.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Gold

ToushiTime wrote: ↑Sun Apr 09, 2023 1:40 pm

I'm no chemist but as coins they both look about equally "compact" too

I think what you mean is that to store the same value as 1oz gold in silver you'd need to store 80oz silver, simply because it's worth less, so you need more of it

I think gold is more than 100x more valuable per oz than silver, and twice as dense/compact (he's right on that score), so I guess you need 50x less space to store gold than silver.
https://edrsilver.com/news-media/media/ ... an-silver/

Not sure how many of us are measuring up our cellars to fit in bullion though

Historically this gold-to-silver ratio has changed a lot. I believe in Roman times it was fixed at around 12 (a weight of gold was worth 12x that weight of silver) but in the last 100 years it has been quite volatile and tended to favor gold much more than throughout most of history. In the graph linked below the ratio tends upward after 1975 when US citizens were again allowed to own gold bullion (it was against the law from 1934-1975) with a sharp dip when the Hunt brothers nearly cornered the silver market and silver prices soared. Personally I don't do any precious metals investing because I don't see them as productive assets.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1441/gold-to-silver-ratio

I don’t see gold as productive either, but that isn’t my criteria for owning something. I have some yen sitting in the bank too. (I believe the current incarnation of Japan’s currency has been going for about 3/4 of a century now, but gold has been regarded as money for much longer, not to mention outperforming the yen in recent times.)

But that aside, going from the https://myindex.jp/ assets allocation tool, adding 10% gold to a global equities portfolio looks like it would have produced marginally better returns for marginally lower risk over the past 20 years. I don’t have 10% and don’t plan to have 10%, but I don’t see it as un-beneficial from that perspective.

sutebayashi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:41 pm I don’t see gold as productive either, but that isn’t my criteria for owning something. I have some yen sitting in the bank too. (I believe the current incarnation of Japan’s currency has been going for about 3/4 of a century now, but gold has been regarded as money for much longer, not to mention outperforming the yen in recent times.)

But that aside, going from the https://myindex.jp/ assets allocation tool, adding 10% gold to a global equities portfolio looks like it would have produced marginally better returns for marginally lower risk over the past 20 years. I don’t have 10% and don’t plan to have 10%, but I don’t see it as un-beneficial from that perspective.

That thin margin will get eaten away by fees very easily. Choose you products carefully. Gold reserves held at Securities companies for example are often a poor choice.

Just thinking aloud but from a quick search, something like this might be a good option

https://gold.tanaka.co.jp

I am a speculator by nature so I like mini gold futures contracts for their low cost (70-150 yen a trade with Rakuten), but it is not so well suited to buy-and-hold style investing, since futures have to be rolled.

I have been doing tsumitate gold hoarding with my bank, despite the higher costs, but doing small amounts per month… that looks ok now with gold at record highs, which won’t always be the case. Hmm maybe I should sell while I’m ahead…

The spread on buying physical might not be a concern if one intends to hold it forever.

Were I more serious I might consider a gold ETF but those fees are higher than an equities ETF…

Indeed it is an unperfect investment vehicle.

sutebayashi wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:41 pm I don’t see gold as productive either, but that isn’t my criteria for owning something. I have some yen sitting in the bank too. (I believe the current incarnation of Japan’s currency has been going for about 3/4 of a century now, but gold has been regarded as money for much longer, not to mention outperforming the yen in recent times.)

But that aside, going from the https://myindex.jp/ assets allocation tool, adding 10% gold to a global equities portfolio looks like it would have produced marginally better returns for marginally lower risk over the past 20 years. I don’t have 10% and don’t plan to have 10%, but I don’t see it as un-beneficial from that perspective.

I'm with you sutebayashi. I always like to have some gold in my portfolio for peace of mind. I've been buying it in small amounts with yen every month for about 20 years now. It hasn't done as well as equities (9% vs 11% per year in yen terms, and the fees are higher as has been mentioned) but that's not really the point. It's a great diversifier, and performs very well in certain market conditions. Just looking at my Q1 portfolio check, I see that I currently have 9% of my total investment portfolio in gold (15% if you don't include physical investment property). I'm fairly happy with that amount, and I'll probably continue to buy a little each month from now despite it being at all-time highs. "Make a plan > stick to the plan > rebalance when necessary" is my mantra!