RetireJapan

TokyoBoglehead wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:49 am

adamu wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:13 am

AussiePete wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 6:28 am I have always felt a little uneasy about depriving my own city of funds

Don't have a good answer for that one.

If you live in a large city/ward with a healthy tax base and you're supporting a city or town that needs it, it's very morally justifiable.

If you live somewhere that needs your taxes and your items are coming from a wealthier district, I think it's highly questionable.

Yes, I live in a depopulating, ageing rural area (is there any other kind?) and don’t feel it would be right to direct my tax elsewhere. Plus it doesn’t seem the easiest of systems to navigate, particularly as a self employed person without predictable income.

Starting to get drastically off-topic now, but on the other hand:

1) The system is the system. If Furusato Nozei is systematically unfair (e.g. big cities all offering enticing rewards to coax away tax from the countryside), then it's the duty of the politicians to fix it.

2) It does provide quite a unique and stable income source, and in bulk, for the providers of goods participating in the system that wouldn't exist otherwise. This applies to big cities too.

3) From a personal finance perspective, unless the 2000 yen fee or the time it takes is not worth it for you, you should do it.

From a political perspective, there are any things I disagree with in Japan’s tax system. NISA seems to me like a tax benefit for the wealthiest, and mortgage balance related tax credit is similar. I could go on, but refrain.

Little of this is how I think an efficient tax + government expenditure system should be designed, but in the end, I don’t have vote, I can only play the game as per the rules decided.

So I take advantage of these things where I see value to me. NISA, furusato nozei, mortgage balance tax credit… it’s crazy I think, but these are the rules.

One aspect of furusato nozei that I do like, is that people in some furusato that produce something of value to me, get a benefit from their doing so. I love this, it is good. This is in contrast to how I see my taxes being spent in my place of residence, which seems like they are having too much money available. I like the competition aspect, that is, personally.

It is not good for me that the wealthiest people get to redirect their tax burden and get more free stuff than poorer people. But for whatever furusato nozei one does do, it is money going to people producing things that are valuable to others. I like this, although it is not what I think a tax system should be.

Way off topic now, but as the saying goes, in for a penny, in for a pound.

To expand on my previous comment, my feelings are similar to Sutebayashi.
I live in one of the larger cities of Kansai, where I can only assume that the current mayor is childless and wishes all other residents were too, because he has absolutely no interest in doing anything that is beneficial for families with children. So even if I paid my tax in full here, I do not see it being of any use, which is why I ultimately use the furusato nozei system.

At first I only bought items from, sorry donated to, neighbouring municipalities where we visit on holidays and have some sort of connection with (including one place I would like to retire to in the future), and all within the prefecture I live in. But in recent years I have been chasing better deals from more distant towns.

One more thing I think is worth mentioning is that I am not convinced that the small cities and towns we think we are giving money to actually receive that much from the project. As an example, let's look at a 10,000 yen donation to Yurihonjo in Akita Prefecture, in exchange for a 10kg bag of rice, via the Furunavi website. For that 10,000 yen income, I estimate that the city faces the following expenses:

1,000 yen to the Furunavi website operator (800 yen in Amazon points back to me, and 200 yen income for the company)
2,000 yen to the rice producer
1,000 yen to the courier company to cart the rice halfway across the country
A few hundred yen to the company that the city outsources its Furusato operations to
Plus there are other expenses that the city must end up footing the bill for, such as the advertising campaigns that flood the TV networks with commercials

These are rough figures and could be a fair bit off the mark, but I would hazard a guess that the city receives less than 5,000 yen from the 10,000 yen we think we are donating to them. On the other hand, maybe spreading the love amongst all these companies is good for the national economy.
[/quote]Way off topic now, but as the saying goes, in for a penny, in for a pound.

To expand on my previous comment, my feelings are similar to Sutebayashi.
I live in one of the larger cities of Kansai, where I can only assume that the current mayor is childless, because he has absolutely no interest in doing anything that is beneficial for families with children. So even if I paid my tax in full here, I do not see it of being any use, which is why I have used furusato nozei in the end.

At first I only bought items from, sorry donated to, neighbouring municipalities where we visit on summer holidays and have some sort of connection with (including one place I would like to retire to in the future), and all within the prefecture I live in. But in recent years I have been chasing better deals from more distant towns.

One more thing I think is worth mentioning is that I am not convinced that the small cities and towns we think we are giving money to actually receive that much from the project. As an example, let's look at a 10,000 yen donation to Yurihonjo in Akita Prefecture, in exchange for a 10kg bag of rice, via the Furunavi website. For that 10,000 yen income, I estimate that the city faces the following expenses:

1,000 yen to the Furunavi website operator (800 yen in Amazon points back to me, and 200 yen income for the company)
2,000 yen to the rice producer
1,000 yen to the courier company to cart the rice halfway across the country
A few hundred yen to the company that the city outsources its furusato nozei operations to
Plus there are other expenses that the city must end up footing the bill for, such as the advertising campaigns that flood the TV networks with commercials at the end of each year.

These are rough figures and could be a fair bit off the mark, but I would hazard a guess that the city receives less than 5,000 yen from the 10,000 yen we think we are donating to them. On the other hand, maybe spreading the love amongst all these companies is good for the national economy.

To respond to TokyoBogleHead's comment:
"If you live in a large city/ward with a healthy tax base and you're supporting a city or town that needs it, it's very morally justifiable."

As mentioned above, I do live in a large city with what should be a healthy tax base, but every time I visit my kids' schools it feels like a trip back 40 years in time. Maybe that 10,000 yen would help the school's budget, but I fear it it would more than likely go to another abstract art object near city hall.

To put an end to my ramble, this year I will probably keep using the furusato nozei system, but revert to my original principle of donating locally to places I have a connection with, and will also sign both my kids up for Junior Nisa tomorrow.