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Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:40 pm
by Roger Van Zant
Where in Japan are you?
I know a foreign (Dutch) doctor in Fukuoka.
I have been going to him for over fifteen years.
He will be able to give you the best advice.
None of this “gamen “ nonsense.

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:12 am
by Haystack
Like many things in this world I think the compromise between the Japanese approach and the Western approach is most sound.

Larger availability and understanding among physicians when it comes to acute, long-term pain. Coupled with closer monitoring (3-6 month script lengths).

I would like to also see Japan embrace things like THC that allow people to manage pain, while avoiding other scripts that are harmful to their kidneys and livers long-term (if possible in each individual case).

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:24 am
by Gulliver
Roger Van Zant wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:40 pm Where in Japan are you?
I know a foreign (Dutch) doctor in Fukuoka.
I have been going to him for over fifteen years.
He will be able to give you the best advice.
None of this “gamen “ nonsense.
Would that be Dr. Schlemper? (I did a quick Google search).

I live in Kanto but I would definitely be willing to pay the price of a Shinkansen ticket for a doctor that has knowledge of modern medicine.

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:32 am
by Maido
I have had chronic back pain for just over a year and was just at the hospital just now

I have been prescribed cymbalta/duloxetine and it has been a great help. I started using it last July and stopped in early December. For the last few months I’ve be fine but a month ago the pain came back and I’m back on it again and it’s working.

It takes a while to build up in your system and is an SNRI. There are a lot of scary stories about it online and both a pro and anti Facebook group. Naturally I was hesitant to take it but personally I’ve has zero side-effects either starting or when I tapered off last year. All my blood work when on it has been great. You can’t/shouldn’t drink when on it though some do but I just abstain when I’m on it.

It can be used long term but I plan to be on it for 6 months and then take a break if the pain goes away.

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:59 am
by Gulliver
Haystack wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:12 am Like many things in this world I think the compromise between the Japanese approach and the Western approach is most sound.

Larger availability and understanding among physicians when it comes to acute, long-term pain. Coupled with closer monitoring (3-6 month script lengths).

I would like to also see Japan embrace things like THC that allow people to manage pain, while avoiding other scripts that are harmful to their kidneys and livers long-term (if possible in each individual case).
I agree with you here. I was prescribed some kampo here that did wonders for my prostatitis.

I’ve never tried THC for pain (does it work for this? I thought it was mainly used to increase appetite and epilepsy) but I do agree that anything that might reduce the amount of harmful meds we have to take is worth research for approval.

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:25 am
by Haystack
Gulliver wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:59 am
Haystack wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:12 am Like many things in this world I think the compromise between the Japanese approach and the Western approach is most sound.

Larger availability and understanding among physicians when it comes to acute, long-term pain. Coupled with closer monitoring (3-6 month script lengths).

I would like to also see Japan embrace things like THC that allow people to manage pain, while avoiding other scripts that are harmful to their kidneys and livers long-term (if possible in each individual case).
I agree with you here. I was prescribed some kampo here that did wonders for my prostatitis.

I’ve never tried THC for pain (does it work for this? I thought it was mainly used to increase appetite and epilepsy) but I do agree that anything that might reduce the amount of harmful meds we have to take is worth research for approval.
Standard, I am not a physician etc disclaimer.

THC can change the "texture" of pain, and help you push it more to the background. It will not cover up that pain. It helps make pain more manageable.

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:35 am
by Gulliver
Haystack wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:25 am
Standard, I am not a physician etc disclaimer.

THC can change the "texture" of pain, and help you push it more to the background. It will not cover up that pain. It helps make pain more manageable.
Sounds exactly like what opioids do without the constipation :) . I’d sign up for that study. But, from what I’ve seen of Japanese attitudes towards that sort of thing. We may have to wait for a cold day in hell.

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:24 am
by Gulliver
Bubblegun wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:30 pm So I was an NHS nurse, and there are some questions that really need to be asked before we can really make an real comment on what type of pain killers might be suitable. Most above are discussing acute pain which will resolve itself.

1.What type of pain is it? Nerve, muscular or bone? Depending on the type the the doc can best prescribe some meds. Nerve pain is very hard to treat and control however there have been some excellent results with specific anti-depressants, which block pain.

2. what is the diagnosis? ( important) and Where is your pain specifically? Is Weight an issue? As that can have an impact too.

3. How is the pain being measured? Do you have a pain chart. eg 0.no pain .......... up to 10 unbearable? track it. Show the doc.best thing about a chart is it is objective, measurable, and can be used to review treatment.

4, What type of route is best? To be honest rectal is the fastest route into the blood stream, due to the large bowels large vascular system. and will stop any stomach side effects. Its one of the reason we use it with kids.

5 Have you found a pain specialist? Most docs don't have "expertise" in pain management, because their speciality is in another field, however there has been an increase is pain specialists now. This wasn't something I saw 20 years ago here. if I was you, ask for a referral or look around for a pain management specialist.

6) I am going to suggest that there could be cultural misconception (doctors) on how patients express pain. Maybe Japanese can games, while the rest of the world expresses their pain in an over loud way.
One experience we had was froma young Ethiopian man who continually groaned, and even though we tried to manage his pain and there was no obvious reason for his pain, we thought he was expressing it in the way he would do back home. Anyway, it turned out the consultant recommended a colonoscopy (nice). and they found a massive tape worm inside his intestines. So while, it may be ignored, cultural bias maybe there.( it may not)


I suffered chronic pain for 25 years and I'm basically pain free 2 years now. NO NSAID and no muscle relaxants, which I used for years and years.
I really appreciate the detailed queries, especially from a health professional :).

1. I am hesitant to put my full diagnosis online but ultimately it is neuralgic in nature. I have tried antidepressants but, for some reason, I am susceptible to serotonin sickness. I quickly discovered these are not an option.

2. The pain started about a decade ago when I was at a normal weight. I have gained weight, but that is due to lack of mobility from the condition.

3. I have definitely tried to express my pain levels, which are constant 5 to a breakthrough of 10, to Japanese doctors. But, as I described above, no matter how bad you tell them your pain is they will only give you up to a certain level of medication.

4. I did finally try a NSAID suppository but I found it no more help than oral kind.

5. I have been to pain specialists, both in the US and in Japan. I’ve tried spinal epidural steroid injections and nerve blocks. I’ve been to many different specialists in the US and Germany and I’ve had multiple blood tests, MRIs, CT’s and the list goes on. I finally spent some time at the Mayo Clinic, where I was ultimately prescribed opioids for occasional breakthrough pain- And surprise, they worked!

6. I can definitely agree I have experienced medical “culture shock” here when doctors have repeatedly laughed at me when I told them I was in horrible pain. I wondered if they did this to all of the patients only foreigners.

As a sidenote: One doctor did recently put me on what he described as a “radical treatment” of alternating ibuprofen and acetaminophen every few hours (which is still not enough and ends up messing up your stomach), along with prescription sleeping pills because I could not sleep due to the pain. But they only worked for a few days and made me feel like a zombie.

May I ask what treatment you used to become pain-free?

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:44 am
by captainspoke
THC -- There was one researcher in the pharmacy dept. at the small uni where I used to work. At one point the school put out a kind of book, which included a listing of each person's research.

This one fellow had probably 4-5 pages of THC-related papers listed. The department had a garden area where they grew plants used for kampo, and of course the word was that they were growing pot there, too. (A different prof sometimes posted pics of different plants/flowers to the school email list--digitalis, belladonna, etc.)

Altho it's very taboo here, one difference from the US is that research on it was never banned.

Re: Pain Medication in Japan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:42 pm
by Bubblegun
Gulliver wrote: Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:24 am
Bubblegun wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:30 pm So I was an NHS nurse, and there are some questions that really need to be asked before we can really make an real comment on what type of pain killers might be suitable. Most above are discussing acute pain which will resolve itself.

1.What type of pain is it? Nerve, muscular or bone? Depending on the type the the doc can best prescribe some meds. Nerve pain is very hard to treat and control however there have been some excellent results with specific anti-depressants, which block pain.

2. what is the diagnosis? ( important) and Where is your pain specifically? Is Weight an issue? As that can have an impact too.

3. How is the pain being measured? Do you have a pain chart. eg 0.no pain .......... up to 10 unbearable? track it. Show the doc.best thing about a chart is it is objective, measurable, and can be used to review treatment.

4, What type of route is best? To be honest rectal is the fastest route into the blood stream, due to the large bowels large vascular system. and will stop any stomach side effects. Its one of the reason we use it with kids.

5 Have you found a pain specialist? Most docs don't have "expertise" in pain management, because their speciality is in another field, however there has been an increase is pain specialists now. This wasn't something I saw 20 years ago here. if I was you, ask for a referral or look around for a pain management specialist.

6) I am going to suggest that there could be cultural misconception (doctors) on how patients express pain. Maybe Japanese can games, while the rest of the world expresses their pain in an over loud way.
One experience we had was froma young Ethiopian man who continually groaned, and even though we tried to manage his pain and there was no obvious reason for his pain, we thought he was expressing it in the way he would do back home. Anyway, it turned out the consultant recommended a colonoscopy (nice). and they found a massive tape worm inside his intestines. So while, it may be ignored, cultural bias maybe there.( it may not)


I suffered chronic pain for 25 years and I'm basically pain free 2 years now. NO NSAID and no muscle relaxants, which I used for years and years.
I really appreciate the detailed queries, especially from a health professional :).

1. I am hesitant to put my full diagnosis online but ultimately it is neuralgic in nature. I have tried antidepressants but, for some reason, I am susceptible to serotonin sickness. I quickly discovered these are not an option.

2. The pain started about a decade ago when I was at a normal weight. I have gained weight, but that is due to lack of mobility from the condition.

3. I have definitely tried to express my pain levels, which are constant 5 to a breakthrough of 10, to Japanese doctors. But, as I described above, no matter how bad you tell them your pain is they will only give you up to a certain level of medication.

4. I did finally try a NSAID suppository but I found it no more help than oral kind.

5. I have been to pain specialists, both in the US and in Japan. I’ve tried spinal epidural steroid injections and nerve blocks. I’ve been to many different specialists in the US and Germany and I’ve had multiple blood tests, MRIs, CT’s and the list goes on. I finally spent some time at the Mayo Clinic, where I was ultimately prescribed opioids for occasional breakthrough pain- And surprise, they worked!

6. I can definitely agree I have experienced medical “culture shock” here when doctors have repeatedly laughed at me when I told them I was in horrible pain. I wondered if they did this to all of the patients only foreigners.

As a sidenote: One doctor did recently put me on what he described as a “radical treatment” of alternating ibuprofen and acetaminophen every few hours (which is still not enough and ends up messing up your stomach), along with prescription sleeping pills because I could not sleep due to the pain. But they only worked for a few days and made me feel like a zombie.

May I ask what treatment you used to become pain-free?
1 I understand that you don't want to put up your diagnosis. no problems. However it would be helpful. If you want o PM me off board please do.
You mentioned you were susceptible to serotonin sickness. I was wondering if there was ever a smaller dose to build up tolerance over say a 6 week period. It actually possible to split meds in half and slowly increase them over time.

What anti depressant group were you put on? There are several different types, and eg SSRI. SNRI, and TCRs

2 Weight. I so get that. have you ever been prescribed hydrotherapy?( ofcourse I don't know if this is appropriate, but again for me I it has helped, especially after surgery too.

3 I understand pain at that level. It enough to grind ya down. I was a 6 and out of 10. So you're not alone.

4 NSAID suppositories. I understand that.

5. Glad you're seeking out pain specialists. Without knowing your diagnosis, ( and im not a pain specialist) have you ever tried a TENS machine? I suspect you have. Opioids will certainly take pain away but, that can bring a lot of other side effects.eg constipation,being the most common. up to the addiction level.

6 Yes, I think there can be docs, like that, and they may underestimate it. That maybe because every patient, especially westerners, want more painkillers. I hope you a have a doc who listens and doesn't laugh.


I basically became free with an anti-depressant, hydrotherapy, walking and just doing specific exercises. Of course sometimes I injure myself, and that puts things back a couple of weeks but that's no more that many people who generally twist, or pull something.

In regards to the cannabis thing. I don't think this is an option here and there are side effects to these too. People often think its natural,so it must be great and that there are no side effects, but to be honest
so is aspirin,digoxin,morphine,and chemotherapy and many of the drugs we use and they have side effects. About 70% come from nature.

In regards to taking meds and affecting your stomach. I can assume you take these with your meal?

I hope you get some help.