RetireJapan

Age 65 (the 3/31st following that birthday) was normal retirement. I worked till that time and then started drawing pension.

beanhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:33 am

Moneymatters wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:55 am
https://www.moneypost.jp/609791

She can't get 3/4ths of my kousei nenkin?

Only from age 60 to 64?

Widow's Pension
If your husband dies after contributing for at least 10 years* as the Category Ⅰ insured person and if he has received neither Old-age Basic Pension nor Disability Basic Pension as of the previous day of his death, you can receive the Widow’s Pension while you are aged 60 to 64. To qualify, you need to have been married to him for at least 10 years and have been financially supported by him at the time of his death.
* Contribution-exempted periods are propotionally calculated: we count 1/4 of his coverage periods (months) exempt from 3/4 contribution payment, half of his coverage periods (months) exempt from half contribution payment , and 3/4 of his coverage periods (months) exempt from 1/4 contribution payment.

Benefit Amount
Equivalent to your late husband's unpaid Old-age Basic Pension (based only on the Category Ⅰ insured periods as of the previous day of his death) x 3/4

I posted another link. It's possible if you are both 90! Those links are so complex, they seem to assume everyone takes it for granted you can get this once both old so covers all the other situations without stating that.

beanhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:02 am

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:20 am

Moneymatters wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:59 am One more reason to defer my Jpn pension in my situation is to help my wife upon my deminse. Increasing my Japan pension will increase the amount of regular income she'll see when I'm gone. It will still likely be below tax thresholds.

I didn't think spouses inherited nenkin. Is there a way for them to do that?

Only in some specific instances, it seems.
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/ ... nsion.html

Here’s some information based on the official Japanese guide to survivor's benefits.

Spouses qualify to claim survivor's benefits for Kousei Nenkin (Izoku Kousei Nenkin).

Calculations are fiendishly difficult, but one applies one of two separate formulae based on the deceased's average lifetime monthly earnings for two different periods. (April 2003 is the dividing point). The survivor's benefit is calculated based on multiplying the result by three-fourths of the amount of the deceased spouse's Kousei Nenkin (only the earnings-based portion; the Basic Pension is nontransferable).

For surviving spouses over 65 years old, with their own Kousei Nenkin, this amount is then compared against the result of the total two-thirds of the amount derived from the preceding formula added to one-half of one's own Kousei Nenkin benefits, and the higher amount is what gets paid.

The offiical guide can be downloaded here:
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/service/pamphl ... LK03-3.pdf

No doubt only the pension office will be able to give an accurate figure here, but Kousei Nenkin survivor's benefits for spouses do indeed exist. Whether circumstances will make it possible to receive them is something else.

Moneymatters wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:48 am
Benefit Amount
Equivalent to your late husband's unpaid Old-age Basic Pension (based only on the Category Ⅰ insured periods as of the previous day of his death) x 3/4

I posted another link. It's possible if you are both 90! Those links are so complex, they seem to assume everyone takes it for granted you can get this once both old so covers all the other situations without stating that.
[/quote]

I checked Ben's guide too. The calculations...

But as you said, it seems it does exist and 3/4 is correct, as long as all the other conditions are met!

Interesting stuff. I had not considered the consequence for a surviving spouse's pension.

This article says the same as the Yahoo article Moneymatters linked to - the inherited pension is the same irrespective of the age you begin drawing: https://diamond.jp/articles/-/160670 . It also makes the point that deferring the start date risks increasing health insurance (国民健康保険料) and nursing insurance (介護保険料) costs in addition to income and residence taxes. The example it gives is deferring a ¥2 million/y pension at age 65 to 70 will only give a 33% real terms increase in take home, which is less than the 42% headline figure.

These taxation consequences will further push back the effective payback dates in the diamond article table that ClearAsMud linked before (https://diamond.jp/articles/-/264470). Actual payback dates will depend on the value of each individual's pension. I'd encourage anyone thinking of deferring to run the numbers for each scenario to understand the full picture before making a decision.

@RetireJapan: great point about how a large annuity will give you the confidence to release capital for the benefit of others. Given you will also have ~¥1.4 million/y UK state pension coming (more if you defer that one as well), maybe it is the case that your current plan is "over-insuring" with annuities? It could work out better to take the money earlier, manage it yourself and minimize taxes - you could end up with more to gift away.

beanhead wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:04 am ...it seems it does exist and 3/4 is correct, as long as all the other conditions are met!

The 3/４proportion is the operative rule of thumb for izoku kōsei nenkin pensions (I meant to use only that fraction in my explanation of the formulas rather than the confusing "three-fourths of the nenkin amount"). Just remember that it is not 3/4 of the pension actually being received by the deceased at the time of death but 3/4 of the earnings-related portion of the deceased's kōsei nenkin taking into account the deceased's average monthly income over his or her career, based on a complicated formula (the explanation is given on pages 5-6 of the Japanese guide).

Actually, Shigaku Kyosai explains the benefits in English as clearly as any Japanese site. For the Survivors' Basic Pension (izoku kiso nenkin 遺族基礎年金), applicable only when children are involved, see this page:

https://www.shigakukyosai.jp/en/pension ... bou01.html

For the awkwardly named Survivors' Employees' Pension (izoku kōsei nenkin 遺族厚生年金), see this page:

https://www.shigakukyosai.jp/en/pension ... bou02.html

A widow's supplement is also payable depending on circumstances.

Three further points worth emphasizing:

• According to the Japan Pension Service guide (Japanese, page 7), if a 65-year-old spouse has his or her own kōsei nenkin, the izoku kōsei nenkin gets reduced by that amount.

• The deceased must have had a valid coverage period of 25 years (this has NOT been lowered to 10 years, and is noted on the Shigaku Kyosai pages).

• Survivors benefits are tax-exempt.

The whole thing is a bit of a jungle, and qualifications apply everywhere (I am focusing on cases where the spouse is the survivor).

TBS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:05 pm @RetireJapan: great point about how a large annuity will give you the confidence to release capital for the benefit of others. Given you will also have ~¥1.4 million/y UK state pension coming (more if you defer that one as well), maybe it is the case that your current plan is "over-insuring" with annuities? It could work out better to take the money earlier, manage it yourself and minimize taxes - you could end up with more to gift away.

It's a good point, and given how often I change my mind on things, nothing is set in stone!

I have at least 21 years to think about it too (definitely won't be taking it early)

RetireJapan wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:47 pm

TBS wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:05 pm @RetireJapan: great point about how a large annuity will give you the confidence to release capital for the benefit of others. Given you will also have ~¥1.4 million/y UK state pension coming (more if you defer that one as well), maybe it is the case that your current plan is "over-insuring" with annuities? It could work out better to take the money earlier, manage it yourself and minimize taxes - you could end up with more to gift away.

It's a good point, and given how often I change my mind on things, nothing is set in stone!

I have at least 21 years to think about it too (definitely won't be taking it early)

on the uk pension,given the below is there really much point delaying it?

If you reached state pension age before 6 April 2016, deferring your state pension for a year only really pays off around nine or 10 years after you decided to take your pension. If you reached state pension age after 6 April 2016, the 'pay back' period is 17 years.

Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions- ... r9w8p0f87w - Which?

Should I take extra income or a lump sum? This all depends on your circumstances, what you want to spend the money on and, of course, when you reach state pension age. For those who reached state pension age before 6 April 2016, the extra pension offers the best deal at the moment, as the interest rate on offer - at 10.4% a year far outstrips anything you could earn on a savings account. However, if you're in receipt of any of the above benefits, you might want to think carefully about taking the extra income in case they’re affected. For those who reached state pension age after 6 April 2016, deferring your state pension is no longer an amazing deal. The long wait to recoup what you've given up - 17 years - means there's a risk you could not live to earn back the extra pension you deferred for.

Read more: https://www.which.co.uk/money/pensions- ... r9w8p0f87w - Which?

seems to be that if the uk state pension goes up (as it did this yr ) numbers will change-but any increase doesnt apply to japan residents does it?

bryanc wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:57 am seems to be that if the uk state pension goes up (as it did this yr ) numbers will change-but any increase doesnt apply to japan residents does it?

We get the increases until we reach pension age: at that point under current rules it is frozen. Moving back to the UK would reset it to the current level, so that might be one hack -'move back' every few years for a few months