RetireJapan

In Scotland, the criteria for voting in elections is that you live there, regardless of citizenship. Can you imagine them implementing that in Japan? Not for another few millennia at least.

For me it would be a no-brainer if they permitted multiple citizenship, but as zeroshiki mentioned, renouncing my birth nationality is not a price I'm willing to pay (so far...). You also have to swear an oath to the constitution that comes with "established duties". Good luck if that means conscription or something in the future (although in a situation like that, I imagine naturalized citizens would already be treated as highly suspicious). Article 27 of the constitution includes an obligation to work. I'm not sure how well that fits with a retirement community

One possible downside is that it signs you up to the exit tax, which doesn't apply for employment-based visas (but does for spouse, PR, and long term resident).

adamu wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:06 am In Scotland, the criteria for voting in elections is that you live there, regardless of citizenship. Can you imagine them implementing that in Japan? Not for another few millennia at least.

For me it would be a no-brainer if they permitted multiple citizenship, but as zeroshiki mentioned, renouncing my birth nationality is not a price I'm willing to pay (so far...). You also have to swear an oath to the constitution that comes with "established duties". Good luck if that means conscription or something in the future (although in a situation like that, I imagine naturalized citizens would already be treated as highly suspicious). Article 27 of the constitution includes an obligation to work. I'm not sure how well that fits with a retirement community

One possible downside is that it signs you up to the exit tax, which doesn't apply if you're on a working visa.

To be fair, Scotland has only just brought that in, was a bugbear of my wife’s for the years we lived there that she wasn’t allowed to vote. Point taken though, hell will freeze over before it happens here.

On the wider question, PR is enough for me, they weigh the LDP vote up where I live so voting would not make much difference. And I will never feel Japanese. Though come to think of it I don’t feel very British either…

Beaglehound wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:26 am On the wider question, PR is enough for me, they weigh the LDP vote up where I live so voting would not make much difference. And I will never feel Japanese. Though come to think of it I don’t feel very British either…

I have a non-Japanese friend who says he gets about 5 votes simply by talking apathetic Japanese into voting for who he wants

Wife and I both British, so I’d get Japanese citizenship and she’d keep British.
I assume in the future if we have children then we’d have to choose which nationality they get? Or am I making up the idea that the child chooses when they turn 20?
If it means I can vote, and get involved in politics and a lot less paperwork for the most common things, that seems like a positive for me. I’m a politics and international relations graduate. Changing my name or katakana-ising/kanji-ising it isn’t a problem.

KCLenny wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:14 am I assume in the future if we have children then we’d have to choose which nationality they get? Or am I making up the idea that the child chooses when they turn 20?

Assuming your wife's is a "British citizen otherwise than by descent", the the child would get both nationalities, and would be asked by Japan to make a decision at 20.

If your wife is "British citizen by descent", your child would not automatically become British if born in Japan (but would if born in the UK). Japanese citizenship is jus sanguinis, so it doesn't matter where the child is born as long as one parent is Japanese.

adamu wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:36 am

KCLenny wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:14 am I assume in the future if we have children then we’d have to choose which nationality they get? Or am I making up the idea that the child chooses when they turn 20?

the the child would get both nationalities, and would be asked by Japan to make a decision at 20.

Perhaps I'm theory, but not in actuality. Also, I believe it is 22, not 20.

Established wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:01 am Perhaps I'm theory, but not in actuality. Also, I believe it is 22, not 20.

Yes, it's a grey area. But according to the law, it is necessary. And there is also a provision (article 15) where the MOJ can notify anybody who has not made the declaration to make it in one month or their Japanese nationality is revoked.

Re: age. You must make the decision after turning 20, before turning 22. So according to the letter of the law, citizenship could be revoked at any time after turning 22.

Of course you can also "choose" Japanese, and then "endeavour", but fail to relinquish the other one...

The losing the other citizenship is actually a loophole in Japanese naturalization law as well since "losing" citizenship varies from country to country. France apparently has a provision where you can "lose" the citizenship from a paperwork standpoint but you just need to ask for it back (compared to the US where if you lose it, its gone).

The chances of the Japanese government checking whether you lost it or not is slim but I don't know why you'd want to roll that dice of you being the 0.01% they decide to test that provision of the law on.

zeroshiki wrote: ↑Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:48 am The losing the other citizenship is actually a loophole in Japanese naturalization law as well since "losing" citizenship varies from country to country. France apparently has a provision where you can "lose" the citizenship from a paperwork standpoint but you just need to ask for it back (compared to the US where if you lose it, its gone).

The chances of the Japanese government checking whether you lost it or not is slim but I don't know why you'd want to roll that dice of you being the 0.01% they decide to test that provision of the law on.

In fairness, that will depend on what passport you are relinquishing.

I know folks who would have no interest in claiming back their US passport because of the tax implications.

Similarly if you're 'trading up' from a passport from a developing country to Japan which has more advantages in terms of use/international travel, I can't imagine people wanting to hold onto their original one.

For others though, where there are advantages (including personal identity) to hold on to your original nationality, I can see their dilemma.

Probably worth making the distinction between people who are born with dual nationality (Japan+other) and people who acquire Japanese nationality
(or another nationality if they start with Japanese) later in life.

They are treated very differently. I believe there are no cases where someone who was born a dual national has faced consequences for not relinquishing their other passport after choosing the Japanese one (unless they became a politician and it came up in that context -see Renho).

There are numerous examples of people (who started out either Japanese or other) who lost their Japanese nationality after acquiring another or failing to relinquish the other.

The real danger of the latter is that you then have no right to remain in Japan (you don't get to 'go back' to PR) and would probably be unable to get a visa in the future.