frozen UK pensions

[Stuart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do6B26_FwsQ

There are a couple of useful videos on this site about frozen UK pensions
and how to qualify for increases in the rate of the pension.

I think they are a worth a look at. Would be interested in your opinions.

[Tkydon]

Though Japan is listed in this list of Reciprocal Agreement Countries,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... agreements

It states, "Chile, Japan and South Korea only cover social security contribution liability and do not include benefits. These are known as Double Contribution Conventions."

Japan does not have a full Reciprocal Agreement with the UK, and Japan residence does not (currently) entitle you to the Unfrozen UK Pension when living in Japan.

The full text of the UK Japan Reciprocal Totalization Agreement is here:

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/topics/bukyoku/n ... and-en.pdf

Dated 29 February 2000. The date alone makes it suspect

185 days residence in Japan does not unfreeze your UK Pension. You would have to move to one of the other listed countries with a full Reciprocal Agreement with the UK, not Chile, Japan or South Korea.

The only way to change this would be for the UK and Japan to enter into a new Full Reciprocal Totalization Agreement.

[KyushuWoozy]

Full disclosure, I didn't watch his video, the first 30 seconds made me realise it's not my kind of video, but I've been wondering for a while, let's say I've been living on a frozen pension in Japan for years, so that it is significantly below the full amount I would be getting if I were living in the UK, and then let's say I move back to the UK just long enough to qualify to receive the pension there instead of here in Japan, and then I move back to Japan, when I come back to Japan will I be getting the higher rate that I was just getting in the UK? How long would I have to stay in the UK for this to work, and would this scheme even work?

[kuma]

Though Japan is listed in this list of Reciprocal Agreement Countries,

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... agreements

It states, "Chile, Japan and South Korea only cover social security contribution liability and do not include benefits. These are known as Double Contribution Conventions."

Japan does not have a full Reciprocal Agreement with the UK, and Japan residence does not (currently) entitle you to the Unfrozen UK Pension when living in Japan.

The full text of the UK Japan Reciprocal Totalization Agreement is here:

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/topics/bukyoku/n ... and-en.pdf

Dated 29 February 2000. The date alone makes it suspect

185 days residence in Japan does not unfreeze your UK Pension. You would have to move to one of the other listed countries with a full Reciprocal Agreement with the UK, not Chile, Japan or South Korea.

The only way to change this would be for the UK and Japan to enter into a new Full Reciprocal Totalization Agreement.

This!

Small correction: the UK-Japan social security agreement is one preventing compulsory dual coverage; it is not a totalisation agreement. A readable summary of the agreement can be found here:

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov ... /japan.htm

This, and other sources (including the full agreement published on legislation.gov.uk) can be found on https://retirewiki.jp/wiki/United_Kingdom

A stint in the Philippines might be a possibility for Japan-based UK state pension recipients wishing to have their pensions uprated. There used to be very low hurdles to qualify for a form of retirement visa (35+, relatively modest assets); so low that the system got abused and I believe it is being amended in part. [Further research would be required.]

For those who are resident in Japan on a 'frozen' pension, temporary uprating ('thawing') can be applied for upon visiting the UK or other 'unfrozen' countries (except the USA and Bermuda). This only applies to the time of the visit. (If visiting the UK in December, a Christmas Bonus might also be available!) Further details here: https://retirewiki.jp/wiki/United_Kingd ... _pensions)

The above reference also links the 2021 House of Commons Library Briefing Paper 'Frozen Overseas Pensions':
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn01457/

This contains facts and statistics about the history of the policy not to uprate pensions to overseas recipients except where legally required. It explains that the policy has been in place for over 70 years, and details challenges to this policy.

[northSaver]

Full disclosure, I didn't watch his video, the first 30 seconds made me realise it's not my kind of video, but I've been wondering for a while, let's say I've been living on a frozen pension in Japan for years, so that it is significantly below the full amount I would be getting if I were living in the UK, and then let's say I move back to the UK just long enough to qualify to receive the pension there instead of here in Japan, and then I move back to Japan, when I come back to Japan will I be getting the higher rate that I was just getting in the UK? How long would I have to stay in the UK for this to work, and would this scheme even work?

As kuma says, you can receive the updated pension straight away when visiting the UK. You need to apply for it through the International Pension Centre within one month of arrival.

If you live in the UK for 6 months (actually 183 days) or more then the increased pension will continue to be paid when you move back to Japan. It will be frozen at the new amount thereafter, until you repeat the process.

This article might be useful:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/pensi ... te-pension

[tokyojoe]

If you live in the UK for 6 months (actually 183 days) or more then the increased pension will continue to be paid when you move back to Japan. It will be frozen at the new amount thereafter, until you repeat the process.

A related question is how long would you need to spend in Japan to hold on to PR status? For example, could you spend 184 days a year in the UK
(hence qualifying for an unfrozen UK state pension that rises with the triple lock) but still hold on to PR status in Japan that entitled you to stay
the rest of the time in Japan ?

[northSaver]

A related question is how long would you need to spend in Japan to hold on to PR status? For example, could you spend 184 days a year in the UK
(hence qualifying for an unfrozen UK state pension that rises with the triple lock) but still hold on to PR status in Japan that entitled you to stay
the rest of the time in Japan ?

You can stay out for up to 5 years if you get the right re-entry permit and intend to come back. Here's a discussion about it on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/japanresidents ... ?rdt=58119

I wonder if NISA or anything else would be affected? Probably not?

[tokyojoe]

You can stay out for up to 5 years if you get the right re-entry permit and intend to come back. Here's a discussion about it on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/japanresidents ... ?rdt=58119

I wonder if NISA or anything else would be affected? Probably not?

Many thanks for the reply. So, as I understand it, an arrangement in which you spend 6.5 months of the year in the UK, and the
remaining 5.5 months of the year in Japan could be essentially continued indefinitely with no impact on one's PR status?
If this is so, then the next question is, as you ask above, what the status on tax etc. becomes - would you no longer
be considered resident in Japan for tax purposes ?

[Tkydon]

A stint in the Philippines might be a possibility for Japan-based UK state pension recipients wishing to have their pensions uprated. There used to be very low hurdles to qualify for a form of retirement visa (35+, relatively modest assets); so low that the system got abused and I believe it is being amended in part. [Further research would be required.]

For those who are resident in Japan on a 'frozen' pension, temporary uprating ('thawing') can be applied for upon visiting the UK or other 'unfrozen' countries (except the USA and Bermuda). This only applies to the time of the visit. (If visiting the UK in December, a Christmas Bonus might also be available!) Further details here: https://retirewiki.jp/wiki/United_Kingd ... _pensions)

The above reference also links the 2021 House of Commons Library Briefing Paper 'Frozen Overseas Pensions':
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/re ... s/sn01457/

This contains facts and statistics about the history of the policy not to uprate pensions to overseas recipients except where legally required. It explains that the policy has been in place for over 70 years, and details challenges to this policy.

The 185 days mentioned has to be within the UK Tax Year, so between April and March.
If you go in December, you would not make the 185 days in that tax year... That would be max 121 days...

[Tkydon]

If you live in the UK for 6 months (actually 183 days) or more then the increased pension will continue to be paid when you move back to Japan. It will be frozen at the new amount thereafter, until you repeat the process.

A related question is how long would you need to spend in Japan to hold on to PR status? For example, could you spend 184 days a year in the UK
(hence qualifying for an unfrozen UK state pension that rises with the triple lock) but still hold on to PR status in Japan that entitled you to stay
the rest of the time in Japan ?

You just need a Single or Multiple Re-Entry Permit from Immigration, valid for the sooner of Your Zairyu Card Expiry or 5 years.

So long as you return before your Re-Entry Permit expires, you can renew your Zairyu Card and Re-Entry Permit for another 7 years and 5 years respectively.