US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

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ChapInTokyo
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US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

Post by ChapInTokyo »

I'm wondering about the rate of US withholding tax that is deducted from dividends on US bond ETFs held in NISA accounts. Does anyone have experience of this?

In particular, I'm wondering whether Japanese online brokers like SBI Securities, Rakuten Securities or Monex are aware that the IRS exempts "interest-related dividends" from Chapter 3 withholding and thus apply a lower than 10% US withholding tax rate on dividends from these bond ETFs (see section (k) in "26 USC 871: Tax on nonresident alien individuals"https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req ... ion=prelim).
(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
(1) Interest-related dividends
(A) In general
Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meets the requirements of section 852(a) for the taxable year with respect to which the dividend is paid.
Thanks.
Tkydon
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Re: US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

Post by Tkydon »

:
:
This Guide to Japanese Taxes, English and Japanese Tai-Yaku 対訳, is now a little dated:

https://zaik.jp/books/472-4

The Publisher is not planning to publish an update for '23 Tax Season.
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ChapInTokyo
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Re: US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

Post by ChapInTokyo »

Thanks. It seems that both Monex and SBI are aware that interest-related dividends are not subject to US withholding tax and that their local custodian makes adjustments to any withholding tax withheld from interest-related dividends on ETFs. This means I suppose that if I hold US Treasury Bond ETFs at Monex' NISA and use their automatic reinvestment of dividends service, I can expect a higher return than if I bought a US Treasury Bond Fund at Monex since the ER for Bond ETFs are lower. At least that's what I think it means.

1) The answer from Monex Securities:
(English translation by DeepL)Thank you very much for your inquiry.
We would like to respond to the following inquiry.

──────────────────────────
<Content of reply

This is Monex, Inc.
Thank you for your continued business.

We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry.
We would like to respond to your inquiry.

In the case of U.S. ETFs that pay distributions to non-U.S. persons,
The following are exempt from local withholding tax.

Qualified interest income
Short-term capital gains

However, it is not possible to confirm in advance whether or not the exemption is applicable to a particular issue,
The Company applies the same accounting treatment as applied by the local custodian when applicable.

In addition to cases where distributions are tax-exempted (exempt from withholding tax) at the time of payment, there are also cases where distributions are withheld and then returned to the depository,
In some cases, the tax is withheld at source and then refunded.
Please be aware that there are cases in which distributions are tax-exempted (exempt from withholding) at the time of payment.

The above is our explanation of this matter.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you for your continued support of Monex, Inc.
Monex Contact Center Furukawa

============================================================
Monex, Inc. [FX, Futures & Options, U.S. Stock Dial]
0120-911-440 (toll free)
03-6737-1668 (except for land lines)
Operator available from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on weekdays.

*Please have your login ID and telephone verification number ready at hand.
============================================================

──────────────────────────
<Contact Details

This is a question about BND and BSV, which distribute interest from credits as dividends among U.S. ETFs. It is stated in US law (USC 871: Tax on nonresident alien individuals) that these dividends (Interest-related dividends) are exempt from US withholding tax when paid to nonresident alien individuals. Is this the case with Monex, Inc.

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a In general, no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meets the requirements of section 852(a) for the taxable year with respect to which the dividend is paid.

----------

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
2) The answer from SBI Securities:
About “Foreign Stocks”
Q 24/04/18 23:40:09
I have a question about BNDs and BSVs among US ETFs that distribute interest from receivables as dividends. Is this the case with SBI Securities? (k) Exemption for certain individuals

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a (A) In general Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meets the requirements of section 852(a) for the taxable year with respect to which the dividend is paid.



A 24/04/23 17:15:20
Thank you for your continued business with us.
We would like to respond to your inquiry.

The U.S. tax law allows certain qualified interest income to be distributed without withholding tax to non-U.S. resident and non-U.S. national investors.
This is based on the U.S. QII (Qualified Interest Income) tax rate adjustment system.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.


------------- original message -------------
I have a question about BND and BSV, which are US ETFs that distribute interest from bonds as dividends. Is this the case with SBI Securities? (k) Exemption for certain individuals

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meet

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
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adamu
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Re: US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

Post by adamu »

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
ToushiTime
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Posts: 307
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Re: US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

Post by ToushiTime »

ChapInTokyo wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:29 am Thanks. It seems that both Monex and SBI are aware that interest-related dividends are not subject to US withholding tax and that their local custodian makes adjustments to any withholding tax withheld from interest-related dividends on ETFs. This means I suppose that if I hold US Treasury Bond ETFs at Monex' NISA and use their automatic reinvestment of dividends service, I can expect a higher return than if I bought a US Treasury Bond Fund at Monex since the ER for Bond ETFs are lower. At least that's what I think it means.

1) The answer from Monex Securities:
(English translation by DeepL)Thank you very much for your inquiry.
We would like to respond to the following inquiry.

──────────────────────────
<Content of reply

This is Monex, Inc.
Thank you for your continued business.

We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry.
We would like to respond to your inquiry.

In the case of U.S. ETFs that pay distributions to non-U.S. persons,
The following are exempt from local withholding tax.

Qualified interest income
Short-term capital gains

However, it is not possible to confirm in advance whether or not the exemption is applicable to a particular issue,
The Company applies the same accounting treatment as applied by the local custodian when applicable.

In addition to cases where distributions are tax-exempted (exempt from withholding tax) at the time of payment, there are also cases where distributions are withheld and then returned to the depository,
In some cases, the tax is withheld at source and then refunded.
Please be aware that there are cases in which distributions are tax-exempted (exempt from withholding) at the time of payment.

The above is our explanation of this matter.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you for your continued support of Monex, Inc.
Monex Contact Center Furukawa

============================================================
Monex, Inc. [FX, Futures & Options, U.S. Stock Dial]
0120-911-440 (toll free)
03-6737-1668 (except for land lines)
Operator available from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on weekdays.

*Please have your login ID and telephone verification number ready at hand.
============================================================

──────────────────────────
<Contact Details

This is a question about BND and BSV, which distribute interest from credits as dividends among U.S. ETFs. It is stated in US law (USC 871: Tax on nonresident alien individuals) that these dividends (Interest-related dividends) are exempt from US withholding tax when paid to nonresident alien individuals. Is this the case with Monex, Inc.

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a In general, no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meets the requirements of section 852(a) for the taxable year with respect to which the dividend is paid.

----------

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
2) The answer from SBI Securities:
About “Foreign Stocks”
Q 24/04/18 23:40:09
I have a question about BNDs and BSVs among US ETFs that distribute interest from receivables as dividends. Is this the case with SBI Securities? (k) Exemption for certain individuals

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a (A) In general Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meets the requirements of section 852(a) for the taxable year with respect to which the dividend is paid.



A 24/04/23 17:15:20
Thank you for your continued business with us.
We would like to respond to your inquiry.

The U.S. tax law allows certain qualified interest income to be distributed without withholding tax to non-U.S. resident and non-U.S. national investors.
This is based on the U.S. QII (Qualified Interest Income) tax rate adjustment system.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.


------------- original message -------------
I have a question about BND and BSV, which are US ETFs that distribute interest from bonds as dividends. Is this the case with SBI Securities? (k) Exemption for certain individuals

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meet

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
The catch, I think, is that dividends from the bond ETF would fall outside the scope of NISA tax protection. See here
https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanFinance/s/g5qGZhzeDC (that guy is the moderator and knows his finance)
User avatar
ChapInTokyo
Veteran
Posts: 241
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2022 12:56 am

Re: US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

Post by ChapInTokyo »

ToushiTime wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 2:28 pm
ChapInTokyo wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:29 am Thanks. It seems that both Monex and SBI are aware that interest-related dividends are not subject to US withholding tax and that their local custodian makes adjustments to any withholding tax withheld from interest-related dividends on ETFs. This means I suppose that if I hold US Treasury Bond ETFs at Monex' NISA and use their automatic reinvestment of dividends service, I can expect a higher return than if I bought a US Treasury Bond Fund at Monex since the ER for Bond ETFs are lower. At least that's what I think it means.

1) The answer from Monex Securities:
(English translation by DeepL)Thank you very much for your inquiry.
We would like to respond to the following inquiry.

──────────────────────────
<Content of reply

This is Monex, Inc.
Thank you for your continued business.

We apologize for the delay in responding to your inquiry.
We would like to respond to your inquiry.

In the case of U.S. ETFs that pay distributions to non-U.S. persons,
The following are exempt from local withholding tax.

Qualified interest income
Short-term capital gains

However, it is not possible to confirm in advance whether or not the exemption is applicable to a particular issue,
The Company applies the same accounting treatment as applied by the local custodian when applicable.

In addition to cases where distributions are tax-exempted (exempt from withholding tax) at the time of payment, there are also cases where distributions are withheld and then returned to the depository,
In some cases, the tax is withheld at source and then refunded.
Please be aware that there are cases in which distributions are tax-exempted (exempt from withholding) at the time of payment.

The above is our explanation of this matter.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Thank you for your continued support of Monex, Inc.
Monex Contact Center Furukawa

============================================================
Monex, Inc. [FX, Futures & Options, U.S. Stock Dial]
0120-911-440 (toll free)
03-6737-1668 (except for land lines)
Operator available from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. on weekdays.

*Please have your login ID and telephone verification number ready at hand.
============================================================

──────────────────────────
<Contact Details

This is a question about BND and BSV, which distribute interest from credits as dividends among U.S. ETFs. It is stated in US law (USC 871: Tax on nonresident alien individuals) that these dividends (Interest-related dividends) are exempt from US withholding tax when paid to nonresident alien individuals. Is this the case with Monex, Inc.

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a In general, no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meets the requirements of section 852(a) for the taxable year with respect to which the dividend is paid.

----------

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
2) The answer from SBI Securities:
About “Foreign Stocks”
Q 24/04/18 23:40:09
I have a question about BNDs and BSVs among US ETFs that distribute interest from receivables as dividends. Is this the case with SBI Securities? (k) Exemption for certain individuals

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a (A) In general Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meets the requirements of section 852(a) for the taxable year with respect to which the dividend is paid.



A 24/04/23 17:15:20
Thank you for your continued business with us.
We would like to respond to your inquiry.

The U.S. tax law allows certain qualified interest income to be distributed without withholding tax to non-U.S. resident and non-U.S. national investors.
This is based on the U.S. QII (Qualified Interest Income) tax rate adjustment system.

Thank you very much for your cooperation.


------------- original message -------------
I have a question about BND and BSV, which are US ETFs that distribute interest from bonds as dividends. Is this the case with SBI Securities? (k) Exemption for certain individuals

(k) Exemption for certain dividends of regulated investment companies
   (1) Interest-related dividends
     (A) In general
       Except as provided in subparagraph (B), no tax shall be imposed under paragraph (1)(A) of subsection (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a (a) on any interest-related dividend received from a regulated investment company which meet

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
The catch, I think, is that dividends from the bond ETF would fall outside the scope of NISA tax protection. See here
https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanFinance/s/g5qGZhzeDC (that guy is the moderator and knows his finance)
I'm with you on that. Even with higher expense ratios the bonds mutual funds would probably outperform the bonds ETFs in a NISA because you can remain fully invested up to the year's NISA quota. An exception might be if you are already retired and could do with the income from bonds dividends rather than capital accumulation from compounding the bonds dividends, leaving capital accumulation function to the stocks part of your portfolio?
ToushiTime
Veteran
Posts: 307
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:39 am

Re: US WHT on bond ETFs like BND or BSV in NISA growth account?

Post by ToushiTime »

ChapInTokyo wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 2:32 am
ToushiTime wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 2:28 pm
ChapInTokyo wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 12:29 am Thanks. It seems that both Monex and SBI are aware that interest-related dividends are not subject to US withholding tax and that their local custodian makes adjustments to any withholding tax withheld from interest-related dividends on ETFs. This means I suppose that if I hold US Treasury Bond ETFs at Monex' NISA and use their automatic reinvestment of dividends service, I can expect a higher return than if I bought a US Treasury Bond Fund at Monex since the ER for Bond ETFs are lower. At least that's what I think it means.

1) The answer from Monex Securities:



2) The answer from SBI Securities:

The catch, I think, is that dividends from the bond ETF would fall outside the scope of NISA tax protection. See here
https://www.reddit.com/r/JapanFinance/s/g5qGZhzeDC (that guy is the moderator and knows his finance)
I'm with you on that. Even with higher expense ratios the bonds mutual funds would probably outperform the bonds ETFs in a NISA because you can remain fully invested up to the year's NISA quota. An exception might be if you are already retired and could do with the income from bonds dividends rather than capital accumulation from compounding the bonds dividends, leaving capital accumulation function to the stocks part of your portfolio?
Yes, that absolutely makes sense in your case.

BTW, in my last reply to you in the other thread, I mixed up the fund info so I rewrote that, and added some extra things that came to mind later.
No need to reply. Just mentioned it in case you didn’t notice the errors.
https://www.retirejapan.com/forum/viewt ... 950#p38950

Speaking of bonds, the latest podcast by that same guy, Ramin Nakisa (ex-bonds analyst) discusses bonds vs bond funds, laddering, and choosing funds with the right duration.
https://podcasts.apple.com/jp/podcast/m ... 0656354219

This Vanguard paper was mentioned Bonds vs Bond funds
https://advisors.vanguard.com/content/d ... AIBVBF.pdf
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