Inaka to Tokai (Moving Out)

[Gulliver]

You said you did not enjoy Shinjuku and Shibuya. I would suggest taking some time to explore the all of the 23 core Tokyo wards. There’s truly something for everyone. The mere fact that Haneda International Airport is, at most, 45 minutes away from most areas is a game changer if you love to travel. Unlike most megacities Tokyo is probably as safe or safer than living in the countryside. This in addition to access to a larger choice of quality housing, international schools, medical care, entertainment, socializing, dining, the list goes on…

We have talked about this and were getting our choices open. Do you have any recommendations? A quiet life amidst the city? When I google about it, Meguro ward always comes at the top of the list.

Yes, Meguro (South of Nakameguro) and Setagaya feel like a different world from the rest of Tokyo and are much more mellow.

[captainspoke]

... Raising children in Japan is problematic. Unless you have the resources to send them away to foreign school, for at least part of high school and most of University, there’s a good chance that they will be intellectually and culturally stunted. (Living in Tokyo’s 23 wards may somewhat mitigate the cultural problem). With a few rare exceptions Japanese universities are (how should I put this diplomatically) the object of ridicule among developed world academia. Your children’s opportunities for life and employment would most likely be relegated to Japan only.
...

Yeah, you didn't say "everyone", or "all", and even tho you hedge a little (my bold), your POV there comes thru pretty strongly. And then to fall back on "read carefully, I didn't say everyone"--after you've laid it out like that?

I'm curious to hear how old your kids are, and what kind of educational options and life trajectory you've speculated on.

There've been any number of times that I've thanked my lucky stars that our kids didn't go thru elementary-junior-high school and college in america. Probably since ours ended up in the science/理系 track in HS, their math courses were pretty far up there (way beyond me). Even at the elementary level, I took one along to new zealand for a month and they were nicknamed the 'human computer'. From sciences in HS, they went on to that kind of thing in uni--older one in applied chemistry, the other in some kind of biology (and this one is maybe 18 months from a phd in bioinformatics--at a large uni in the chicago area). The older one worked at a big company (like in the nikkei), but a year ago their partner (same company) got seconded to San Jose, so they went on leave (didn't have to quit), and are probably there for four more years.

They both went to nat'l/国立 uni, which, as you say, may be ranked poorly, and tho I suppose you could say they had cultural and intellectual blinders on throughout, I think they've done really well. And both made it thru uni with zero debt/loans, nor was it much of a stretch for us to fund it.

They're both girls. Never any bullying, and unlike the more stimulating schools in the US, never any active shooter drills, and no drugs, gangs, and so on. Until uni, they walked (biked in HS) back and forth to school on their own--not the US style where parents prevent their kids from being independent and self-responsible by driving them to school and then picking them up.

[Isodora]

Agree with sutebayashi, certain places in Tokyo and the greater Tokyo area are very crowded, but many other places are rather quiet and if you don’t have to go to Shibuya, Shinjuku, Ikebukuro station etc. for work, you never need to go the really busy places at all.

But Tokyo rents and property prices are quite high, especially the before mentioned wards Setagaya and Meguro (also Meguro-ku is one of the most densely populated wards in Tokyo). The northeastern wards on the other hand (closer to Disneyland ) are prone to flooding and fires (very old ore war houses in parts of Arakawa, I read recently) so should be avoided.

Housing in the areas south of the 23 wards, e. g. Kawasaki, Yokohama can be almost 50% cheaper and Yokohama is about one third less crowded than Tokyo. Then there are also the western cities of Greater Tokyo: Mitaka, Chofu, Fuchu etc., but I am not too familiar with those, quite green in parts though.

Personally, I favor the bigger cities over small ones or the countryside, you have the infrastructure, don’t need a car to get around and very important, once you have children of school age, they can handle their school, friends and hobbies/extracurricular activities (naraigoto) juku by themselves, as most everything will be in the neighborhood, no need to chauffeur them anywhere, good for their independence and self-confidence and for your convenience too. (For the very young there is after-school care).

Two parents working full or almost full time while raising children - in a foreign country - can be challenging enough, on top of that are the many social obligations, expectations - having to participate in PTA activities, school activities, neighborhood associations to name just a few - which from my experience are mostly taken care of by the mothers. With the increase of working mothers, maybe in the future those activities will be scaled down. All the working mums I knew, including myself, found them a big pain in the neck, but I digress…..

[Isodora]

Sorry, omitted half a sentence in the top half, wanted to say: „Prone to flooding and fire in case of earthquakes/typhoons and other desasters.“

[Gulliver]

…They're both girls…

I think you may have taken my post A bit personally and missed the big picture I was trying to convey. Regardless, thanks for sharing your story and congratulations on raising strong intelligent women in this country- and working in the sciences no less! From your writings I can tell they had supportive well informed parents which, like I said before, is half the battle. I only wish they were the norm and not the exception for women in Japan.

Also, you mentioned one of your daughters is currently going to University in Chicago. So you must admit my observations are not completely irrelevant to your situation.

Lastly, I’m not sure why people find it necessary to constantly compare Japan to the USA when responding to me. It is not my country of origin (and to me it’s apples and oranges). That said, I would also not wish to send my children to the average US primary or high school. Yikes!

[Gulliver]

Housing in the areas south of the 23 wards, e. g. Kawasaki, Yokohama can be almost 50% cheaper and Yokohama is about one third less crowded than Tokyo.

Yeah, I forgot to mention if you go just south of the Tama River into Kanagawa, single family homes are actually affordable to buy. If you don’t go too far south you’ll still be in commuting distance to all the good stuff in the city. Just don’t live too close to the river. It floods every few years.

If you’re thinking Yokohama, you can get into Tokyo in about 20-30 minutes on a rapid train if you need to.

[zeroshiki]

"Intellectually and culturally stunted" is a bold claim to make unless you're trying to say everyone in Japan except the few who did study in Western schools are the enlightened people or whatnot.

You might want to read my post again. In no way did I say that “everyone” was anything. But I’m guessing you’re purposefully being disingenuous in order to try to validate your point.

Read what? That you believe in western exceptionalism? Using weasel words that "some" of them might not be doesn't let you escape from the point you're trying to make that the ~100M million people currently in Japan that don't live in the 23ku and didn't go study aboard is "culturally and intellectually stunted" (your words).

[Gulliver]

"Intellectually and culturally stunted" is a bold claim to make unless you're trying to say everyone in Japan except the few who did study in Western schools are the enlightened people or whatnot.

You might want to read my post again. In no way did I say that “everyone” was anything. But I’m guessing you’re purposefully being disingenuous in order to try to validate your point.

Read what? That you believe in western exceptionalism? Using weasel words that "some" of them might not be doesn't let you escape from the point you're trying to make that the ~100M million people currently in Japan that don't live in the 23ku and didn't go study aboard is "culturally and intellectually stunted" (your words).

Oh my. Wrong again. No where did I say anything about people “that don't live in the 23ku”. I said “raising children in JAPAN is problematic” and that living in Tokyo “may somewhat mitigate the cultural problem” (which I think goes without saying). Furthermore, I stand by ALL of the words in my post.

As to your “insightful” writing critique: It seems you have yet to learn to conceptualize ideas in a non-binary fashion. I guess that’s something you’ll have work out on your own.

And finally, resorting to schoolyard name calling- the last bastion of the defeated… C’mon, you can do better.

[RetireJapan]

I don't think this thread is going in a very constructive direction. Let's leave it there.

[Popochi]

I have been busy lately and thank you for all the replies.