Buying gold via SBI Securities

[ToushiTime]

Hi,

I bought gold on the SBI Securities website by clicking on the gold/silver/platinum button, which took me to a separate SBI webpage.

The site says that tax on gains from sales of gold is not deducted at source, and has to be declared to the national tax agency when above a certain amount.

Remedial question here:

If I sell the gold at a loss, do I still have to declare the transaction to the NTA?

I assume no, but just want to be sure.

Also, why doesn't the gold show up in the My資産 part of the website, with all my other stock, bond, mutual fund, cash and other assets?

[sutebayashi]

Hi,

I bought gold on the SBI Securities website by clicking on the gold/silver/platinum button, which took me to a separate SBI webpage.

The site says that tax on gains from sales of gold is not deducted at source, and has to be declared to the national tax agency when above a certain amount.

Remedial question here:

If I sell the gold at a loss, do I still have to declare the transaction to the NTA?

I assume no, but just want to be sure.

For some products, you can declare losses and carry those forward to future years to offset future profits.

But for this gold deal you are mentioning, I am guessing it is like a tsumitate product, and is not in scope for such treatment as carried forward losses. So the NTA would not have any way for you to even report the loss in your tax return.

As an aside, gold is currently at all time highs in yen terms. Some people might view it as a really good time to sell (a guaranteed profit for anyone who bought gold), but I have no intention of selling my gold tsumitate, so the tax treatment of realized profits / losses is moot But my recollection is that the profits would be reported as miscellaneous income, were I to sell.

(For more speculative buying and selling, I trade gold and platinum mini futures contracts via Rakuten Shoken - profits are taxed at the flat 20 odd percent rate, which is lower than miscellaneous income is taxed at, in my case)

[TokyoBoglehead]

Hi,

I bought gold on the SBI Securities website by clicking on the gold/silver/platinum button, which took me to a separate SBI webpage.

The site says that tax on gains from sales of gold is not deducted at source, and has to be declared to the national tax agency when above a certain amount.

Remedial question here:

If I sell the gold at a loss, do I still have to declare the transaction to the NTA?

I assume no, but just want to be sure.

Also, why doesn't the gold show up in the My資産 part of the website, with all my other stock, bond, mutual fund, cash and other assets?

It depends on your account type, but reporting accounts will handle all tax so you do not need to worry either way. It should show up with all assets, it does on Rakuten.

HOWEVER, do not buy Gold this way unless you enjoy huge spreads and large fees.

If you are set on Gold (I think it is a poor investment) see these ETF/Trust options. A MUCH better deal' https://shintaro-money.com/gold-funds/

[ToushiTime]

Actually, I am not that convinced about gold, hence my minimal investment, partly out of experimentation.
I noticed there was no chance to chose between 一般口座 or 特定口座.
I think the gold account is a a separate account, separate from the 特定口座, within in the overall 総合課税 so I would have to declare if I booked any gains from a sale.
https://faq.sbisec.co.jp/answer/5ee328b ... earch=true

[sutebayashi]

Actually, I am not that convinced about gold, hence my minimal investment, partly out of experimentation.

That’s more or less me too, but my gold is more of a diversification out of central-bank printed funny money, than an investment. And gold has a long term track record as compared to say crypto-assets.

[adamu]

Gold and crypto are pretty similar in that they are only worth anything because people think they are. They don't produce any value and their actual use beyond resale is quite limited. The difference between gold and crypto is that anybody can make a new crypto currency, but there's only one gold (so gold and a specific crypto asset such as Bitcoin are closer equivalents, and the equivalent to "cryptocurrency" is more like "precious metals").

If it's just a small investment, it might be fun to buy some physical gold coins. I'm not sure about Japan but in the UK if you bought UK-issued gold coins, they were CGT-exempt.

[ToushiTime]

Yes, I agree.
Unlike, fiat money, gold isn't backed by the credit standing of a central bank, and the strength of the economy, and competence of the treasury departments, politicians, central bankers etc etc. which at least gives you something to go on.
Gold's utility as a material for jewelry and industrial applications account for only part of its value.
The rest is just tradition and "well, it's gold, isn't it?"

[concerned]

Silver could also be an option

[ToushiTime]

That could be a good alternative that I hadn't considered.

I did a quick check and found that investors and speculators account for a much smaller portion of demand for silver than for gold.

Do you invest in silver? Directly, or via ETFs, mutual funds?

[concerned]

That could be a good alternative that I hadn't considered.

I did a quick check and found that investors and speculators account for a much smaller portion of demand for silver than for gold.

Do you invest in silver? Directly, or via ETFs, mutual funds?

Yes silver has more industrial uses than Gold, and with the move towards green economy its usage is set to increase.
I have invested in silver directly. This means I pay storage charges though, and its more expensive due to premiums. As regards previous metals ETF's I would be concerned about 3rd party risk and their access to the real metal in case of a crisis.

Silver is more volatile than Gold, and Like Gold I do not see this as an investment as per say, but as insurance. I would not invest too much