Moving investments out of Japan

[TokyoBoglehead]

Standard Route for JPX shares/ETFs and American shares/ETF is.

1. Open IBKR Japan *
2. Transfers from Japanese broker to Japanese IBKR
3. Open IBKR Home Country Account
4. Have them transfer the shares over.

You will need to sell the mutual funds. You can choose you preferred strategy to sell, and rebuy the equivalent index in Aust.

*Account openings are currently paused as the revamp their accounts. Looks like things will be easier in the future, but you need to wait.

IBKR Japan - https://www.interactivebrokers.co.jp/
IBKR Australia - https://www.interactivebrokers.com.au/ ... hp?f=46431

[aussieinjapan]

Standard Route for JPX shares/ETFs and American shares/ETF is.

1. Open IBKR Japan *
2. Transfers from Japanese broker to Japanese IBKR
3. Open IBKR Home Country Account
4. Have them transfer the shares over.

You will need to sell the mutual funds. You can choose you preferred strategy to sell, and rebuy the equivalent index in Aust.

*Account openings are currently paused as the revamp their accounts. Looks like things will be easier in the future, but you need to wait.

IBKR Japan - https://www.interactivebrokers.co.jp/
IBKR Australia - https://www.interactivebrokers.com.au/ ... hp?f=46431

Thanks for the reply and links! I have heard of Interactive Brokers, so this might be a good option. I also know that Monex can do it for a fee.

Seems like the a good option is to:

• Sell mutual funds (they are all in JPY)
• Re-invest this JPY into similar ETFs (probably on the TSE, so I'm not having to convert to USD right now. Also Rakuten has no fees for a lot of the TSE ETFs I've found).
• Transfer to an Australian broker (via IBKR or Monex)

[goran]

I asked about it on Rakuten Securities help chat and they referred me to the page I linked to in the post (which I hadn't noticed before). Since you can get a five year re-entry permit with the PR (I plan to do this), I wonder if it might be possible to convince them to keep it open for five years. The problem is if you don't know if you'll be back (期間未定) they won't keep it open, but if you do you'd have to assign a proxy (任代理人). Even then, there's limitations (it says they place restrictions on trading for non-residents - お客様が日本の非居住者に該当することとなった場合、出国期間中のお取引、保有できる商品等を制限いたします。).

Thank you for the details.

I wonder what happens if we don't tell them anything and just leave. Come back only to renew the PR once in a few years or for vacation, may be.
I know it is not in the spirit of PR or the purpose for which PR is applied by most people.
Just thinking for if I ever need to leave Japan for extended period of time (years, semi-permanently) and end my employment here, for some family emergency back home or for some other reasons.

The Rakuten Securities help page has a section about what happens if you leave without telling them (i.e. submitting the paperwork) See the "手続きを完了せずに出国された口座、非居住者であることが判明した口座への対応" section. You won't be able to trade, they will sell your products they don't think you can own any more, and they won't give you the withholding tax back.

This is unfortunate.
Anyone knows if emaxis slim All Country is one of those products which people can't own without residing in Japan?

[TokyoBoglehead]

Thank you for the details.

I wonder what happens if we don't tell them anything and just leave. Come back only to renew the PR once in a few years or for vacation, may be.
I know it is not in the spirit of PR or the purpose for which PR is applied by most people.
Just thinking for if I ever need to leave Japan for extended period of time (years, semi-permanently) and end my employment here, for some family emergency back home or for some other reasons.

The Rakuten Securities help page has a section about what happens if you leave without telling them (i.e. submitting the paperwork) See the "手続きを完了せずに出国された口座、非居住者であることが判明した口座への対応" section. You won't be able to trade, they will sell your products they don't think you can own any more, and they won't give you the withholding tax back.

This is unfortunate.
Anyone knows if emaxis slim All Country is one of those products which people can't own without residing in Japan?

Mutual funds tend not to be "international" but domestic. They are not widely traded internationally and follow different domestic laws/regulations.

ETFs were created to solve many of the problem with mutual funds.

The emaxis slim series is perfect for Japanese residents, and their structure actually makes them superior to ETFs in Japan (domestic or international ETFS). However anyone looking to move/relocate should be in ETFs when possible.

[eagleyes]

That is very unfortunate news. Is it only for Rakuten or other brokers have also the same rule?

So if I summarize

- less than 1 year: no need to do anything and you can continue to trade
- more than 1 year but less than 5 years: need to inform rakuten. Possibility to keep only Japanese stocks and bonds but you cannot trade. What about funds then? It is unclear.
- more than 5 years: you have to close your account

This is really not convenient at all in order to plan long term investment. If you have to go abroad for some time, that is really another headache.

[TokyoBoglehead]

.

[goran]

The Rakuten Securities help page has a section about what happens if you leave without telling them (i.e. submitting the paperwork) See the "手続きを完了せずに出国された口座、非居住者であることが判明した口座への対応" section. You won't be able to trade, they will sell your products they don't think you can own any more, and they won't give you the withholding tax back.

Withholding tax means the tax benefits that I get from using NISA and such vehicles?
Sorry for really dumb question here.

[aussieinjapan]

The Rakuten Securities help page has a section about what happens if you leave without telling them (i.e. submitting the paperwork) See the "手続きを完了せずに出国された口座、非居住者であることが判明した口座への対応" section. You won't be able to trade, they will sell your products they don't think you can own any more, and they won't give you the withholding tax back.

Withholding tax means the tax benefits that I get from using NISA and such vehicles?
Sorry for really dumb question here.

Sorry I just did a rough Google translate of 源泉徴収税額の還付対応などはいたしかねます。and didn't think about that too much. I think if you are using a 特定 account that pays capital gains or dividend tax for you, they won't refund it.

[eagleyes]

So I dig in on the subject today and unfortunately I can confirm that most of the Shoken companies in Japan will ask anybody going abroad to have some limitations or to close the account at some point. This is especially true for the online ones. At least, this problem is not only for foreigners but also for Japanese.

You can find detail information on this page for example (in Japanese): https://yatsuyaku.com/securities_accoun ... residents/

I also found that someone living in Malaysia is using many accounts to invest in USD and transfer in Yen to Japan. He is using Interactive Brokers and FirstTrade (not familiar with this one).

I also found that guy from a small company Global Support that explains one way to transfer money from a Japanese Shoken account to a Singapore establish Brokerer called Philip Capital. https://www.phillip.com.sg/ They have offices in Australia so this could be one solution to explore for some of you guys. It looks like then there is no issue to access from wherever in the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUGmufR4xkU

That is really another huge subject to explore which could mean changes in investment strategy for many who might have to go back home at some point. If anybody has a solution for someone who may need to go to Europe please let me know (Ireland? Luxembourg?) I have not find anything yet.

[TokyoBoglehead]

So I dig in on the subject today and unfortunately I can confirm that most of the Shoken companies in Japan will ask anybody going abroad to have some limitations or to close the account at some point. This is especially true for the online ones. At least, this problem is not only for foreigners but also for Japanese.

You can find detail information on this page for example (in Japanese): https://yatsuyaku.com/securities_accoun ... residents/

I also found that someone living in Malaysia is using many accounts to invest in USD and transfer in Yen to Japan. He is using Interactive Brokers and FirstTrade (not familiar with this one).

I also found that guy from a small company Global Support that explains one way to transfer money from a Japanese Shoken account to a Singapore establish Brokerer called Philip Capital. https://www.phillip.com.sg/ They have offices in Australia so this could be one solution to explore for some of you guys. It looks like then there is no issue to access from wherever in the world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUGmufR4xkU

That is really another huge subject to explore which could mean changes in investment strategy for many who might have to go back home at some point. If anybody has a solution for someone who may need to go to Europe please let me know (Ireland? Luxembourg?) I have not find anything yet.

Country of origins, citizenships, resident status, legal rules and broker rules all matters. For example, in Canada there is ONE broker who will accept active, non-resident citizen accounts. So for those who move around a lot it might be worth the extra 5% capital gains. (Questtrade, for anyone Googling).

From a Japanese standpoint, I think waiting on IBKR is the smartest move, as this is their bread and butter.