Moving investments out of Japan

[aussieinjapan]

I am an Australian living in Japan (long term resident with PR). I have investments with Rakuten Securities and Monex, a mixture of Japanese stocks, US stocks, eMaxis Slim index funds, and a small amount of other mutual funds I bought from Shinsei held with Monex.

If I were to move back to Australia, I was wondering what I would need to do with my investments. According to Rakuten Securities, unless you can prove your move is temporary (like your job is sending you overseas for a few years) then you have to sell your holdings and close your account. https://www.rakuten-sec.co.jp/web/suppo ... -resident/. Even if the move is temporary, there’s a limit on how long you can keep it open. The banks I use (Rakuten Bank and Shinsei Bank) also want you to close your accounts if you leave, so I can’t just hold a bunch of JPY if I sold either. I have a Mizuo account, which I haven’t checked if I can keep open, which might be an option. But at any rate, if I did leave but could hold money here, it would be temporary as I’d prefer to have at least some of it invested.

The problem is, as you are probably aware, the JPY is extremely weak right now. It’s a little better to the AUD than the USD but it’s still not great. And the S&P500 is down quite a bit. So if I were to sell my US stocks or eMaxis All Country index fund it would be bad, and if I were to sell Japanese stocks and convert JPY to AUD it would also be bad. I’d really like to hold on to everything for at least a while longer hope the JPY and the S&P500 recover.

I discovered Monex has an Australian branch (https://www.monexsecurities.com.au/) and I contacted them about it. They said they can transfer my holdings - but just the Japanese and US stocks, not the mutual funds - for a fee of A$1000. Sounds like they just pulled that out of thin air, but anyway, it seems like a cost-effective way of getting my investments over without having to sell, convert to AUD, transfer over to Australia, and reinvest. I could perhaps sell my eMaxis Slim index funds and buy equivalent index fund ETFs (see this post viewtopic.php?t=1453) and then should be able to transfer all of my holdings over. I’ll have to pay Japan taxes for the sale of the index funds of course.

This next question is related, but only relevant for Australians so feel free to skip this. I also was thinking about investing on the ASX, in case the move happens, as this would give me less to move over. For any other Aussies here, were you able to successfully set up an account anywhere from overseas? The NAB say I can use NABTrade if I trade on the ASX only, and what I’ve read on the ATOs website seem to suggest this is totally OK to do this, as long as I pay taxes on capital gains in Japan while I’m a non-resident in Australia. I’m having issues setting up a NABTrade account (I can’t seem to receive SMSes sent from Australia here, despite turning off international SMS blocking with my mobile provider). All other non-bank brokers I’ve looked at (CMC markets, Stake, SelfWealth) don’t support non-residents. The only one I can find that does (Pearler) is a new startup and charge A$200 to setup an account if residing overseas, so there is at least that one option aside from NABtrade. Pearler is CHESS-sponsored though. Do you know of any others that can be used from overseas while a non-resident for tax purposes in Australia?

Has anyone tried to move their investments back to their home country? How did you manage to do it?

[goran]

...if I did leave but could hold money here, it would be temporary as I’d prefer to have at least some of it invested...

This was my only motivation to apply for PR in Japan; having a bank and securities account open even when not residing in Japan.
Looks like its not an option then, sadly.

[beanhead]

I can't help with the main issue, I am afraid.

I read on another thread here that Prestia (SMBC Trust) allows you to keep bank accounts open even after leaving Japan. It may be worth checking.
If they allowed investments to be kept as well, that would be a major advantage to using them...

[TokyoBoglehead]

Standard Route for JPX shares/ETFs and American shares/ETF is.

1. Open IBKR Japan *
2. Transfers from Japanese broker to Japanese IBKR
3. Open IBKR Home Country Account
4. Have them transfer the shares over.

You will need to sell the mutual funds. You can choose you preferred strategy to sell, and rebuy the equivalent index in Aust.

*Account openings are currently paused as the revamp their accounts. Looks like things will be easier in the future, but you need to wait.

[aussieinjapan]

...if I did leave but could hold money here, it would be temporary as I’d prefer to have at least some of it invested...

This was my only motivation to apply for PR in Japan; having a bank and securities account open even when not residing in Japan.
Looks like its not an option then, sadly.

I asked about it on Rakuten Securities help chat and they referred me to the page I linked to in the post (which I hadn't noticed before). Since you can get a five year re-entry permit with the PR (I plan to do this), I wonder if it might be possible to convince them to keep it open for five years. The problem is if you don't know if you'll be back (期間未定) they won't keep it open, but if you do you'd have to assign a proxy (任代理人). Even then, there's limitations (it says they place restrictions on trading for non-residents - お客様が日本の非居住者に該当することとなった場合、出国期間中のお取引、保有できる商品等を制限いたします。).

[goran]

...if I did leave but could hold money here, it would be temporary as I’d prefer to have at least some of it invested...

This was my only motivation to apply for PR in Japan; having a bank and securities account open even when not residing in Japan.
Looks like its not an option then, sadly.

I asked about it on Rakuten Securities help chat and they referred me to the page I linked to in the post (which I hadn't noticed before). Since you can get a five year re-entry permit with the PR (I plan to do this), I wonder if it might be possible to convince them to keep it open for five years. The problem is if you don't know if you'll be back (期間未定) they won't keep it open, but if you do you'd have to assign a proxy (任代理人). Even then, there's limitations (it says they place restrictions on trading for non-residents - お客様が日本の非居住者に該当することとなった場合、出国期間中のお取引、保有できる商品等を制限いたします。).

Thank you for the details.

I wonder what happens if we don't tell them anything and just leave. Come back only to renew the PR once in a few years or for vacation, may be.
I know it is not in the spirit of PR or the purpose for which PR is applied by most people.
Just thinking for if I ever need to leave Japan for extended period of time (years, semi-permanently) and end my employment here, for some family emergency back home or for some other reasons.

[RetireJapan]

I wonder what happens if we don't tell them anything and just leave. Come back only to renew the PR once in a few years or for vacation, may be.
I know it is not in the spirit of PR or the purpose for which PR is applied by most people.

I think currently in practice this may work (as long as you have an address in Japan), but you have no guarantee that immigration or the tax office won't crack down in the future.

If you pretend to be resident you may be deemed liable to tax, etc.

Anyone else?

[aussieinjapan]

I wonder what happens if we don't tell them anything and just leave. Come back only to renew the PR once in a few years or for vacation, may be.
I know it is not in the spirit of PR or the purpose for which PR is applied by most people.

I think currently in practice this may work (as long as you have an address in Japan), but you have no guarantee that immigration or the tax office won't crack down in the future.

If you pretend to be resident you may be deemed liable to tax, etc.

Anyone else?

I called immigration and explained I wanted to return to Aus but keep my PR, and they told me that if you do get a five year reentry permit (6000 yen) first, then come back just before it expires, you can renew it for another five years same-day (not sure if you have to go to immigration to do this). I asked if you can do this as many times as you like (hey, why not just get to the real question I wanted to ask!) and they said I could. I was as surprised as you probably are.

I can't guarantee this will actually work in practice, but they did tell me that many people do this. I called with a Japanese native speaker so I'm pretty sure we understood things correctly.

[goran]

I wonder what happens if we don't tell them anything and just leave. Come back only to renew the PR once in a few years or for vacation, may be.
I know it is not in the spirit of PR or the purpose for which PR is applied by most people.

I think currently in practice this may work (as long as you have an address in Japan), but you have no guarantee that immigration or the tax office won't crack down in the future.
If you pretend to be resident you may be deemed liable to tax, etc.
Anyone else?

yeah. That would have been my next question. If I keep an address in Japan (may be a friend's place or something), won't they look for taxes (city tax, ward tax, etc.)?

[aussieinjapan]

This was my only motivation to apply for PR in Japan; having a bank and securities account open even when not residing in Japan.
Looks like its not an option then, sadly.

I asked about it on Rakuten Securities help chat and they referred me to the page I linked to in the post (which I hadn't noticed before). Since you can get a five year re-entry permit with the PR (I plan to do this), I wonder if it might be possible to convince them to keep it open for five years. The problem is if you don't know if you'll be back (期間未定) they won't keep it open, but if you do you'd have to assign a proxy (任代理人). Even then, there's limitations (it says they place restrictions on trading for non-residents - お客様が日本の非居住者に該当することとなった場合、出国期間中のお取引、保有できる商品等を制限いたします。).

Thank you for the details.

I wonder what happens if we don't tell them anything and just leave. Come back only to renew the PR once in a few years or for vacation, may be.
I know it is not in the spirit of PR or the purpose for which PR is applied by most people.
Just thinking for if I ever need to leave Japan for extended period of time (years, semi-permanently) and end my employment here, for some family emergency back home or for some other reasons.

The Rakuten Securities help page has a section about what happens if you leave without telling them (i.e. submitting the paperwork) See the "手続きを完了せずに出国された口座、非居住者であることが判明した口座への対応" section. You won't be able to trade, they will sell your products they don't think you can own any more, and they won't give you the withholding tax back.