Calculate amount to be received based on years paid

[TokyoBoglehead]

Thanks for that additional information!
Yeah that's not much, especially for 25 years of payments...
Nah. Still can't figure do I need this pension at all, with such numbers

You're going to need something, and even with those numbers nenkin is a better value than an annuity from the private sector.

Well this is the problem so many have. What is the point of paying in if they're only going to get 35,000 yen a month, and end up working full time anyway. (we've all had that discussion about self reliance, responsibility and blah blah blah) We shouldn't just blame the gaijin. The Japanese gov has some responsibility on putting many immigrants in this situation. Many see it as, DON'T PAY into the pension now, cause they're going to be working full time well past their retirement anyway.
The Japanese themselves have the added benefits of years of employment and being literate. Many ex pats don't have those benefits. So it's a numbers game to many, and they probably don't see it's worth it. For them the value is in spending the money while they're young and enjoying it, ( while working full time) because they''ll still be working full time post 65.( cause they wouldn't have had enough anyway). That seems to be the psychology we are facing. not the people here on this forum, but it is for those who are NOT ON THIS FORUM.
The Japanese gov should really automatically enroll every single person into the pension, full or part time. This has to be much easier now with the new insurance numbers. I never understood why "WE HAD TO APPLY TO JOIN THE PENSION"

Indeed.

The FSA fret about people who won`t be able to live off Kokumin and Kosei Nenkin, due to low savings.

What about those Part-timers who will barely get Kokumin/Nation pension (Max 6ish 万 per month). What is the plan for these poor souls?

I am privileged enough to have the resources and knowledge (thanks to the forum) to plan a Frankenstein's monster of iDeco+Nisa+Tsumutates to save for retirement. But most cannot, or are too afraid to try.

IDeco should be mandatory. And employers/employees regardless of status should each automatically contribute a matched 5000 yen a month minimum. This would mean that everyone is in the system by default, with more than the base Kokumin.

[Moneymatters]

..The FSA fret about people who won`t be able to live off Kokumin and Kosei Nenkin, due to low savings.

What about those Part-timers who will barely get Kokumin/Nation pension (Max 6ish 万 per month). What is the plan for these poor souls?

https://youtu.be/22fWNXpOri4
I quite like the 調べてみたら series. It’s no nonsense and simply delivered. So based on a random street survey. There certainly are a bunch of people on low or even no nenkin.

In my modest circle of Japanese friends and acquaintances, It’s common for children being expected to help out. Either with money or two generation living arrangements. Which are frequently three generations.
I’ve known people for years before they casual mention, the mother in law has been living with them for a decade! (That’s ten years of MIL joke opportunities left unused.) And in all cases I’m personally aware of these older relatives are in decent health and compos mentis.

If there isn’t a compliant off spring available there is a means tested social assistance program to help with accommodation and livelihood aid.
https://www.ipss.go.jp/s-info/e/Jasos2001/p28-38.html

I think there have been steps to get more people enrolled in kousei nenkin by changing the profile of companies that need to offer it.. Although I’m increasingly prone to allowing things I’ve dreamt to get mixed with reality like Father Dougal. Obviously that’s a concern, but far less concerning than finding it normal to dream about the Japan pension system! <Shakes angry fist at RetireJapan forum.>

[RetireJapan]

If there isn’t a compliant off spring available there is a means tested social assistance program to help with accommodation and livelihood aid.
https://www.ipss.go.jp/s-info/e/Jasos2001/p28-38.html

Probably worth mentioning here that there is no obligation for local authorities to provide social assistance to non-Japanese residents. They can choose to do so but are not compelled to.

Personally I would be wary of relying on the kindness of bureaucrats in old age

[TokyoBoglehead]

If there isn’t a compliant off spring available there is a means tested social assistance program to help with accommodation and livelihood aid.
https://www.ipss.go.jp/s-info/e/Jasos2001/p28-38.html

Probably worth mentioning here that there is no obligation for local authorities to provide social assistance to non-Japanese residents. They can choose to do so but are not compelled to.

Personally I would be wary of relying on the kindness of bureaucrats in old age

Why would they need to provide social assistance, we are all just temporary workers right? Whenever I feel sorry for myself I just remember that I am not a migrant farm worker being told to work during a thunderstorm.

[Tkydon]

https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/ ... nsion.html

Old Age Basic Pension - Kokumin Nenkin - Benefit

You can receive the Old-age Basic Pension at the age of 65 if you have been covered under the National Pension and Employees' Pension Insurance systems. Your total coverage periods* need to be 10 years or more.

* Your total coverage periods include your contribution-paid periods as well as your contribution-exempted periods as a Category Ⅰ, Category Ⅱ or Category Ⅲ insured person.
Benefit Amount (Fiscal year 2022)

Currently, in 2022 this is Y777,800 per year (full benefit amount based on 40 years (aged between 20 and 59 years) of fully contributed coverage periods)

If you have coverage periods for which you failed to pay or your contribution was exempted, the amount is;

Y777,800 x ( (1) + (2) + (3) + (4) + (5) ) / 40 years * × 12

(1) Number of contribution-paid months (no exemption)
(2) Number of full contribution-exempted months** × 1/2
(3) Number of three-quarter contribution-exempted months** × 5/8
(4) Number of half contribution-exempted months** × 3/4
(5) Number of one-quarter contribution-exempted months** × 7/8

* Shorter for some people, depending on date of birth
** Depending on your income or according to the National Pension Act, you may be granted an exemption of full- or partial- amount of contribution payment.

For items (2) to (5) above, please apply the formula below if your contribution is exempted for March 2009 and earlier:
(2) Number of full contribution-exempted months × 1/3
(3) Number of three-quarter contribution-exempted months × 1/2
(4) Number of half contribution-exempted months × 2/3
(5) Number of one-quarter contribution-exempted months × 5/6


Plus


https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/ ... loyee.html

Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64 - Kosei Nenkin - Benefits

If you have one year or more of EPI coverage periods and if you satisfy the contribution requirement to qualify for the Old-age Basic Pension under the National Pension system, you can receive the specially-provided Old-age Employees' Pension (TOKUBETSU SHIKYUNO ROREI KOSEI NENKIN) from your pensionable age to 65. The pensionable age for this pension is being raised in stages according to date of birth.
Benefit Amount (Fiscal year 2022)

Annual amount of your specially-
provided Old-age Employees' Pension = (A) + (B) + (C)
payable between age 60-64

(A) Fixed Amount Portion*
\1,628 × 0.996 (revised rate for the fiscal year 2022）× multiplier depending on your date of birth ** × Number of your covered months (up to 480 months*** )
* The pensionable age for the fixed amount portion is being raised in stages according to date of birth.
ダウンロードのリンク　新規ウインドウで開きます。** Please see here.（PDF　42KB）
*** This amount varies depending on your date of birth.

(B) Remuneration-related Portion
(a) + (b)

(a): Your Average Standard Monthly Remuneration* x (7,125/1,000)** x Number of your covered months (March 2003 and earlier)

(b): Your Average Standard Monthly Remuneration*** x (5,481/1,000)** x Number of your covered months (April 2003 and later)

* Your Average Standard Monthly Remunerations of March 2003 and earlier, reassessed to the current value and divided by the number of your covered months including March 2003 and earlier.
** This amount varies depending on your date of birth.
*** Total of your Average Standard Monthly Remunerations and Standard Bonuses in April 2003 and later, reassessed to the current value and divided by the number of your covered months including April 2003 and later.

(C) Additional annual benefits
If you have periods of EPI coverage for 20 years or more in total, or for 15 to 19 years after age 40 (age 35 for women), and if you have dependent family members when you reach age 65 in principle, you can receive additional annual benefits. Eligible dependent family members include;
(1) your dependent spouse younger than age 65, except that your spouse has periods of EPI coverage for 20 years or more in total, or for 15 to 19 years after age 40 (age 35 for women)
(2) your dependent child(ren) who has not yet reached first March 31 since his/her 18th birthday (20th if with certain grade of disability specified by law)

Y223,800 for your spouse*
Y223,800 each for your first and second child
Y74,600 each for your third and subsequent child(ren)

* Depending on your date of birth, special supplement may be added to this additional annual benefit for your spouse.


Early Payment of Old-age Pension for age 60-64

In principle, the pensionable age for Old-age Basic Pension and Old-age Employees’ Pension is 65. However, you may opt to start early payment any time between your 60th birth month and the previous month of your 65th birth month. Please note that if you opt for early payment, the benefits amount is reduced.
Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64 while you work

While you work and are covered by the EPI, your specially-provided Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64 will be either reduced or suspended if the total of your monthly pension payable and your monthly remuneration from your work is more than \470,000.
Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64 and Employment Insurance benefits

While you receive the Unemployment Basic Allowance paid under the Employment Insurance Act, your specially-provided Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64 will be suspended.
While you work and receive the continuous employment benefits for the elderly which is paid under the Employment Insurance Act, your specially-provided Old-age Employees' Pension amount is adjusted by considering your continuous employment benefits in addition to the adjustment explained in "Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64 while you work" above.
Old-age Employees' Pension after age 65

You can receive the Old-age Employees' Pension on top of your Old-age Basic Pension at the age of 65, if you have one month and more coverage periods under the EPI and if you satisfy contribution requirements to qualify for the Old-age Basic Pension under the National Pension system.
Benefit Amount (Fiscal year 2022)

Your Annual Old-Age Employees' Pension After 65 = Remuneration-Related Portion* + Transitional Additional Benefits** + Additional Annual Benefits***

* Same formula as the specially-provided Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64
** Equivalent to the difference, if any, between your "Fixed Amount Portion of the specially-provided Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64" and your "Old-age Basic Pension amount"
*** Same formula as additional annual benefits of the specially-provided Old-age Employees' Pension for age 60-64

Old-age Employees' Pension after age 65 while you work

Your Old-age Employees' Pension after age 65 will be either reduced or suspended while you work and are covered by the EPI and the total of your monthly pension payable and your monthly remuneration from your work is more than \470,000.

See Also
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/ ... index.html
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/ ... index.html


Plus


Any Work Related Pension Scheme, either Defined Benefit (DB)(rarer these days), or Defined Contribution (DC) (Japan's 401k Style), or Kokumin Nenkin Kikin


Plus


Any Individual Defined Contribution (iDECO)


These can either be paid out as Lump Sum, or Annuity Pension Income, or a combination of the two. Both forms are taxed at beneficially low tax rates, and usually only in your country of residence, depending on your country of residence and the Tax Treaty between Japan and your country of residence at the time you receive the Retirement / Pension income.

See Also (Usually Article 11...)
https://www.mof.go.jp/english/policy/ta ... st_en.html


Plus


Any NISA or Tsumitate-NISA

The Payout is completely Tax Free.


Then, you should aim to also invest additional funds in Regular Investment Accounts.

You should probably aim to invest around 25% of your Gross Income annually, though you can make changes through your adult life as your circumstances change / dictate...

[beanhead]

IDeco should be mandatory. And employers/employees regardless of status should each automatically contribute a matched 5000 yen a month minimum. This would mean that everyone is in the system by default, with more than the base Kokumin.

Isn't this what Australia does? And Singapore, too, I think. At least for citizens.
Agreed that making these things mandatory makes a lot of sense.

[Bubblegun]

..The FSA fret about people who won`t be able to live off Kokumin and Kosei Nenkin, due to low savings.

What about those Part-timers who will barely get Kokumin/Nation pension (Max 6ish 万 per month). What is the plan for these poor souls?

In my modest circle of Japanese friends and acquaintances, It’s common for children being expected to help out. Either with money or two generation living arrangements. Which are frequently three generations.
I’ve known people for years before they casual mention, the mother in law has been living with them for a decade! (That’s ten years of MIL joke opportunities left unused.) And in all cases I’m personally aware of these older relatives are in decent health and compos mentis.

Well this is something that maybe much more difficult in the future. The population is getting much much older, and sicker.
Our Generation has much smaller families, and if the family has only one daughter, and she gets married, and moves in with the husbands family, and so her family may not have any direct carers in their household and can we be expect a new couple to look after 2 families financially, as well as have children. Also with new rights coming in with women, it is now much easier for women to divorce.again putting more pressure somewhere else along the care line. Which parent should the single child now an adult look after?
While this maybe great for the Japanese family, the circumstances for the immigration population are completely different. I'm sure we know of families that are estranged ( there are also Japanese estranged families too). So I know people do point to those 3 gen families and what people expect, it should be a worry about how the JP are going to help those who fall throw the cracks without us bashing those who aren't interested in something like retire japan, or just can't afford to join the IDECO JNISA. There would be nothing worse that saving 1000 yen for a pension for the JP gov to then say, were going to reduce your help by 1000 yen. People would switch off to saving anything.

[Bubblegun]

..The FSA fret about people who won`t be able to live off Kokumin and Kosei Nenkin, due to low savings.

What about those Part-timers who will barely get Kokumin/Nation pension (Max 6ish 万 per month). What is the plan for these poor souls?

In my modest circle of Japanese friends and acquaintances, It’s common for children being expected to help out. Either with money or two generation living arrangements. Which are frequently three generations.
I’ve known people for years before they casual mention, the mother in law has been living with them for a decade! (That’s ten years of MIL joke opportunities left unused.) And in all cases I’m personally aware of these older relatives are in decent health and compos mentis.

Well this is something that is maybe much more difficult in the future. The population is getting much much older, and sicker.
Our Generation has much smaller families, and if the family has only one daughter, and she gets married, and moves in with the husbands family, and so her family may not have any direct carers in their household and can we be expect a new couple to look after 2 families financially, as well as have children. Also with new rights coming in with women, it is now much easier for women to divorce.again putting more pressure somewhere else along the care line. Which parent should the single child now an adult look after?
While this maybe great for the Japanese family, the circumstances for the immigration population are completely different. I'm sure we know of families that are estranged ( there are also Japanese estranged families too). So I know people do point to those 3 gen families and what people expect, it should be a worry about how the JP are going to help those who fall throw the cracks without us bashing those who aren't interested in something like retire japan, or just can't afford to join the IDECO JNISA. There would be nothing worse that saving 1000 yen for a pension for the JP gov to then say, were going to reduce your help by 1000 yen. People would switch off to saving anything.

[Moneymatters]

..What about those Part-timers who will barely get Kokumin/Nation pension (Max 6ish 万 per month). What is the plan for these poor souls?

...

So I know people do point to those 3 gen families and what people expect, it should be a worry about how the JP are going to help those who fall throw the cracks without us bashing those who aren't interested in something like retire japan, or just can't afford to join the IDECO JNISA. There would be nothing worse that saving 1000 yen for a pension for the JP gov to then say, were going to reduce your help by 1000 yen. People would switch off to saving anything.

I agree we shouldn’t bash anyone and logically there will be fewer families to take people in. It’s likely the area I live in is distorting my view on how commonplace this is. And even then it doesn’t always work. One father had to be asked to leave after a few years. IMO he was far too young and I think the motivation was purely culinary on his part.

The obvious solution is a means based tax on people that choose to never have kids. Ha ha. I jest of course!
Sadly I suspect the Gov won’t do anything dramatic so it will become increasingly normal for some people to work well into their 70s. Based on another assumption I have on peoples reluctance to seek aid from the state[citation needed].
Hopefully communal living becomes more normalized as there are serious health benefits above the economic ones.

[TokyoBoglehead]

The problem is people deciding too late to plan for their retirement is not an issue exclusive to any income class, or visa status.

I know two professors who just turned 65, and are shocked to find out that it is difficult to find continued employment. It is too late for investing, the can only 1. Reduce spending and 2. increase income, 3. Possibly downsize.

Another, has zero nenkin. An older PR, had her husband convince her that nenkin was a Ponzi scheme. They are in a tight bind now.

Japan`s solution to older immigrants, or those with dependents who earn too little to support their families will probably be non-renewal of visas. There is already a large problem with health tourism among visa-holder dependents. That is why Japan is pushing insurance for visitors.