Rakuten Cash/楽天キャッシュ

[TBS]

Depending on the card SBI offers 3% with trust purchases fyi. And Monex 1.1%+

I do not follow your math though. Credit card Tsumitate payments take weeks to get started, there isn`t a lot of "time" advantage. I think this sort of thinking is bound to introduce some false conclusions.

All other costs being equal I think it really only makes sense to consider the:

A. Points you receive for free from making an investment
B. The points you receive by holding the trusts.

The cost of the credit card itself can be a factor for the higher yield cards.

Yes I agree, as I said before. The credit card schemes offered by Monex and SBI best Rakuten's offerings.

My post was aimed at those who already max out CC investments with SBI & Monex (if Monex will give them a card), but also have money left over they'd like to invest. In which case maxing out Rakuten's offering as well may make sense if the alternative is investing via cash/furikomi with Monex/SBI.

I disagree that all things being equal it only makes sense to consider those two things. That's fine in the first instance, but the reality is opportunity costs/benefits, compounding and levering interest-free money are real things. There is real profit there which can be taken.

[TokyoBoglehead]

I disagree that all things being equal it only makes sense to consider those two things. That's fine in the first instance, but the reality is opportunity costs/benefits, compounding and levering interest-free money are real things. There is real profit there which can be taken.

Perhaps I am missing one of the current promotions?

My understand was

SBI - 1-3% with select credit cards
Monex 1.1% + limited time campaigns
Kabu (Has anyone on this board every tried them?!?[/b ] 1%
Rakuten Cash 1% until 2023. Then .5%
Rakuten Card (w/out Cash) .2%

The argument for using Rakuten card and cash would be an extra 100 points per month maximum with the separate card payment?

[TBS]

Perhaps I am missing one of the current promotions?

My understand was

SBI - 1-3% with select credit cards
Monex 1.1% + limited time campaigns
Kabu (Has anyone on this board every tried them?!? 1%
Rakuten Cash 1% until 2023. Then .5%
Rakuten Card (w/out Cash) .2%

The argument for using Rakuten card and cash would be an extra 100 points per month maximum with the separate card payment?

Thanks, I hadn't heard of kabu before. Maybe I'll try them. Their website is currently loading slower than an iDeco application, not a great start.
Fund purchase is on the 1st of the month, but the au card payment date is the 10th, so not much interest-free leverage.

Rakuten card w/out cash will become 0.2%, which is max 100 points per month you say. But leveraging the interest-free period is worth about .4~.5% per month. That may still be worth taking for people who have maxed out the other options, or people who already have the R card and sec account and don't want more paperwork setting up the others.

[TokyoBoglehead]

Rakuten card w/out cash will become 0.2%, which is max 100 points per month you say. But leveraging the interest-free period is worth about .4~.5% per month. That may still be worth taking for people who have maxed out the other options, or people who already have the R card and sec account and don't want more paperwork setting up the others.

I can see where your coming from, but I would not characterize the credit aspect of a Tsumitate purchase via credit card as a major factor to consider. It may entice lower income people to overextend. And is not a material benefit for mid-high earners.

The application process are a headache though. Security firms are somewhat easy to signup for. However, credit card applications are a massive pain in Japan. Our family now has 4 different ones, and it seems a bit crazy to get an SBI one. The Monex card for example is notorious difficult to apply for.

[zeroshiki]

The Monex card is legit impossible unless your name fits within 10 characters which alot of foreigners can't do.

[TBS]

I can see where your coming from, but I would not characterize the credit aspect of a Tsumitate purchase via credit card as a major factor to consider. It may entice lower income people to overextend. And is not a material benefit for mid-high earners.

The application process are a headache though. Security firms are somewhat easy to signup for. However, credit card applications are a massive pain in Japan. Our family now has 4 different ones, and it seems a bit crazy to get an SBI one. The Monex card for example is notorious difficult to apply for.

One way to think about credit card tsumitate schemes is it is reducing fixed costs. Similar to switching to a cheaper mobile contract each year or stopping Amazon Prime/Netflix subscriptions when they aren't used. In this case it is reducing regular investment costs.

The credit aspect is part of a wider point about the timing of investments. For instance with the 0.2% new Rakuten CC point rate, if someone is delaying investing money they already to have to invest this way, they are probably going to be worse off. At 6% annual average growth, each month of delayed investment misses out on ~0.47% of growth. Unfortunately this forum has seen a spate of posts in recent times recommending people delay investments (DCA, market timing strategies etc.) which is sad to see . Many people don't realize the costs of delays. Even fewer look back at their past investment/cashflow moves and to understand what they could have lost. I recommend just picking a value for your emergency fund, then investing any excess each month to keep your cash at this level. This avoids building up excess cash and missing out on investment gains.

Yes, credit card applications are hit and miss. FWIW I started SBI/SMBC earlier this year and it was mostly ok (took a call to SBI to be able to link the CC). Monex was a rejection, possibly a name issue or perhaps because I'd applied to SMBC in the same period. Japanese sites say previous CC applications within the past six months is a common rejection cause with Aplus アプラス, the company who administer the Monex card. The sites also say アプラス cards have high rejection rates even for Japanese applicants.

[RetireJapan]

Monex was a rejection, possibly a name issue or perhaps because I'd applied to SMBC in the same period. Japanese sites say previous CC applications within the past six months is a common rejection cause with Aplus アプラス, the company who administer the Monex card. The sites also say アプラス cards have high rejection rates even for Japanese applicants.

I was approved for the card, but couldn't receive it because they sent it super strict recorded delivery, and my stupid ID doesn't match word for word

Post office just would not give it to me, so it got sent back, along with my dreams.

[TBS]

I was approved for the card, but couldn't receive it because they sent it super strict recorded delivery, and my stupid ID doesn't match word for word

Post office just would not give it to me, so it got sent back, along with my dreams.

Lol. The postmen here never check at the door. Only once was when I went to pick up a card at the delivery office: "name doesn't match", he said. "Yea, it's truncated on the letter because too many characters" I said. "Meh" he replied and handed it straight over .

[adamu]

For instance with the 0.2% new Rakuten CC point rate, if someone is delaying investing money they already to have to invest this way, they are probably going to be worse off. At 6% annual average growth, each month of delayed investment misses out on ~0.47% of growth.

This is relevant to this thread too, because for the 0.5% (temporarily 1%) Rakuten Cash option, if you set it up to use keep, it's going to charge the next month almost immediately after the current month has been deducted, which means the cash sits for approximately six weeks (4 weeks in Rakuten Cash, 2 weeks in the ether between when they deduct and credit your securities account) doing nothing. Although they are deducting from the Credit Card, so there's that to take into consideration too. I've not run the numbers.

Personally I treat money as "spent" as soon as I make a transaction, even on a credit card. In practice means I keep an equivalent offset in cash until the CC bill is paid. That's probably not an efficient strategy, but in the absence of interest-paying deposit accounts, it's a cost I accept for the benefit of sound budgeting (and means I'm never in the situation of not having the cash to pay off the card / buying things I've not budgeted for).

[TokyoBoglehead]

For instance with the 0.2% new Rakuten CC point rate, if someone is delaying investing money they already to have to invest this way, they are probably going to be worse off. At 6% annual average growth, each month of delayed investment misses out on ~0.47% of growth.

This is relevant to this thread too, because for the 0.5% (temporarily 1%) Rakuten Cash option, if you set it up to use keep, it's going to charge the next month almost immediately after the current month has been deducted, which means the cash sits for approximately six weeks (4 weeks in Rakuten Cash, 2 weeks in the ether between when they deduct and credit your securities account) doing nothing. Although they are deducting from the Credit Card, so there's that to take into consideration too. I've not run the numbers.

Personally I treat money as "spent" as soon as I make a transaction, even on a credit card. In practice means I keep an equivalent offset in cash until the CC bill is paid. That's probably not an efficient strategy, but in the absence of interest-paying deposit accounts, it's a cost I accept for the benefit of sound budgeting (and means I'm never in the situation of not having the cash to pay off the card / buying things I've not budgeted for).

I do the same. Moneytree has a "Net worth" number (Assets-CC owing/debt), which is what I use.

Is anyone going to try KABU/AU? I do not think I have the strength of will! However, if you already have AU, it might be worth it.

Ben? Future blog post material? You already have SBI/Rakuten/Monex it seems