EV cars - worth the price or stick with hybird

[sytyue]

Hi all,

I have been interested in EV cars for a while now. Of course, I started as a Tesla fanboy but living in Nagano means I have to drive three hours to be able to even test drive one and shaken will probably require a long drive to Aichi or Tokyo since I can't find a place that would do it in the countryside. I also read today that the Nissan Leaf is going to have a slight price drop this coming summer. I am also willing to buy used or even a test drive car from the dealers.

I want to know about the costs and battery life for any EV owners in Japan out there esp if you own a Leaf and/or a Tesla. I know the Leaf is a bit outdated with no liquid cooling for the battery, but the price and the government support money that started this April, I am thinking of going for it. Also, any information and price about home chargers would be great.

I currently drive a 2013 Honda Fit which can still last about 2-3 years but I do drive about 14,000km year for work and it has passed 100,000km as of last month.

[Bubblegun]

I personally have no idea but will be certainly considering one when my petrol car dies.
I’ve been watching this guys channel and he certainly puts forward some great points and with no real reason to think petrol prices will come down anytime soon. In fact I’m guessing once inflation is under control they governments will increase petrol taxes to nudge society and the manufacturers towards decarbonizing . A few of my friends and students have them and love them.My main problem at the mo is we live in an apartment. So petrol isn’t going to disappear. The guy also does a time to return on investment in some of his vids which I find more useful.
From all my friends who bought hybrids they felt that it wasn’t worth the return on their investments. So we didn’t buy one.
https://youtu.be/nN2gXKS8R4A
https://youtu.be/bW7Aovm7esE

[TJKansai]

We've had a hybrid for 9 years and it is still going strong (50,000km).
Averages around 20km/l, and we fill up the tank once a month.
It's a good car, but a bit underpowered for me, especially when it is fully loaded on the highway.

A friend has a Honda Vezel Hybrid which he loves and it gets similar mileage. He is 186cm and fits in easily. The back seat is also spacious.

That said, I am more excited about EVs, in particular, the ones which are pretty quick (Aryia and Tesla foremost).
Toyota's PHEV RAV4 is also surprisingly fast, but really hard to buy used (or even test drive).

Toyota has a new EV coming out, the bz4x, but won't be that powerful.

I do have a bit of concern that these 500km/full charge estimates are based on optimal conditions, and in reality driving in colder areas will bring them way down.

I am sure there will be many in 5 years, but the pickings are slim now. Plus new prices are in the 5-8 million range.

[TJKansai]

From all my friends who bought hybrids they felt that it wasn’t worth the return on their investments. So we didn’t buy one.
https://youtu.be/nN2gXKS8R4A
https://youtu.be/bW7Aovm7esE

Ours was 1.9 million new.

50,000km has required about 2,500liters. A regular car with the same size 1.5L engine would have needed 4,000L perhaps. So saving 1500Lx¥150/L means ¥225,000 in gas savings so far. Probably close to breaking even now.

If gas continues to go up (say 200) and stays there then the payoff will be greater of course.

[mighty58]

I rented/test drove the Hyundai Ioniq5 for 12 hours a couple weeks ago (available via Anyca). Wow. The performance, ride quality, etc. was unbelievable. I was convinced, electric is definitely the future. The fact I'm currently spending over 10,000yen per tank of gas really made me think hard about the TCO (total cost of ownership) as well.

That all being said, I'm frugal by nature and can't justify a. buying a brand new car due to steep depreciation, and b. paying a lot of money (for me, anything more than 100man) on a car when we live in perhaps the best value used-car market in the world.

[sytyue]

I also agree that EV is the future. My next car WILL be an EV, but I'm just thinking about the timing. I live in a house and we installed solar panels last year which will def help with the cost of charging an EV. I wish there were more choices in Japan though. I know the VW id series will be coming out in Japan sometime this year but I also feel that shaken or any repair fees for non-Japanese EV will be high. I don't know how I feel about buying a used EV cause of battery life and such. I feel like I should wait for the cost to come down but I am not sure when that might be but at the same time, EVs are electronics so the newer the tech, the higher the cost.

[Bubblegun]

From all my friends who bought hybrids they felt that it wasn’t worth the return on their investments. So we didn’t buy one.
https://youtu.be/nN2gXKS8R4A
https://youtu.be/bW7Aovm7esE

Ours was 1.9 million new.

50,000km has required about 2,500liters. A regular car with the same size 1.5L engine would have needed 4,000L perhaps. So saving 1500Lx¥150/L means ¥225,000 in gas savings so far. Probably close to breaking even now.

If gas continues to go up (say 200) and stays there then the payoff will be greater of course.

I have to agree the pay off will be faster if petrol continues to go up.And I see now reason fro petrol to go down in price in the future. I'm sure people will just adjust accordingly. I think we looked at a hybrid 10 years ago and I think at the time the time to the ROI was nearly 20 years. By that time the car would have been a right off. Of course there is the Environmental eROI, would start immediately at the pump, but taking into the account the Co2 on production it would also take several years for the eROI to fully kick in. I hope there will be much more choices in the few more years.
Although goodness know how they are going to supply electricity to everyone living in a tower blocks, tenements, or with on street parking. We can have cables running along the pavements everywhere. I've been itching to get an electric, more so when I see a few of my students driving Teslas. Those gull wings just look gorgeous. Only problem I have with a TESLA is a I can't get "Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark" out of my darn head. Maybe only the Brits will get this.
Tesla Girls.

https://youtu.be/Ae6paFtk6e0

[TJKansai]

I rented/test drove the Hyundai Ioniq5 for 12 hours a couple weeks ago (available via Anyca). Wow. The performance, ride quality, etc. was unbelievable. I was convinced, electric is definitely the future. The fact I'm currently spending over 10,000yen per tank of gas really made me think hard about the TCO (total cost of ownership) as well.

That all being said, I'm frugal by nature and can't justify a. buying a brand new car due to steep depreciation, and b. paying a lot of money (for me, anything more than 100man) on a car when we live in perhaps the best value used-car market in the world.

Lucky you!
I took a Tesla S for a spin, but just 15 minutes. Too high end for me.
I am waiting for Nissan to tell me when an Ariya is available to test drive.

I asked at my local VW, and they were slow to acknowledge VW EVs exist, even though they have an EV charger in the parking lot. Probably because they don't have any EV catalogs yet.

[northSaver]

Personally I would love an electric campervan, since this would alleviate the main obstacle for buying a petrol one (uneconomical). I'd probably go for one based on a Nissan e-NV200, since I'm in Japan. It's not very pretty though - a bit too boxy. Hopefully the electric campervan market will start taking off soon. I can see there being a lot of demand for them!

[TJKansai]

Personally I would love an electric campervan, since this would alleviate the main obstacle for buying a petrol one (uneconomical). I'd probably go for one based on a Nissan e-NV200, since I'm in Japan. It's not very pretty though - a bit too boxy. Hopefully the electric campervan market will start taking off soon. I can see there being a lot of demand for them!

The problem for me is that campers with a kitchen/bed/toilet/shower need a decent size engine, which in turn means higher annual taxes (not to mention shaken). Hard to justify if you only use it a few weeks a year.

There are a couple good-sized ones in my neighborhood that stay parked 11 months a year.

A more van-like vehicle that works for daily usage makes more sense, but it won't have much in the way of bells and whistles.