Older house/Renovation/purchase

[Bubblegun]

We are considering older property and renovating, eg new kitchen, new bathroom, some walls changed from wood to plaster board, maybe some new windows.
So I was wondering if anyone has had experience doing this with an older property as we maybe looking for some advice, tips and tricks, and also costs involved especially with walls and windows.

I certainly don't mean the idea of the Japanese TV show Before after, where I don't think that's renovation, that seems more like demolition and rebuilding.
One thing is for sure the culture shock are Tin walls, ceramic walls, compared to brick in the UK. Some places aren't link to the mains gas but seem to get gas delivered. Im not sure about this, anyone here have experience of this?

We went to see a couple of renewed older properties, where the inside was redone up, and the outsides remodeled,in some ways.
But the place seemed small and a bit out of the way,(wife wants to be closer to things).
Anyway the guy who spoke to us said he can put in a pre-application for a mortgage then we can start to look for a property instead of doing it the other way round. So long as the mortgage paynment isn't more than 30% of our income, we should be ok.
Anyway, we were looking at some that have been renovated and we are talking about 11 million yen. So it makes me wonder how much they actually paid for the place...before they renovated and are flipping it.

Certainly a big step going down this route.
Look forward to reading about your ideas, and experience .

[Foremost]

No personal experience apart from watching a few Youtube videos on such projects. Have a look. And good luck!

[Bubblegun]

No personal experience apart from watching a few Youtube videos on such projects. Have a look. And good luck!

Thanks. I've watched quite a few. Although a lot of the people doing it seem to be doing it themselves. OMG. They make it seem so easy.Ill stick to the simple DIY stuff. Unless some here have had beginners experience here and can share their experience with JP houses here.

[captainspoke]

We bought an older place, maybe 25-30yrs old when we bought it. Didn't do anything to it for a couple years, apart from new lighting, and I put down some carpet tiles in the living room at some point. Some years later we spent ¥2.5M on the kitchen, new counter (80cm high!), built in burners/grill/oven, down lights, dishwasher, cabinets, and one window enlarged and replaced. That came with some plumbing done, wiring for the stove and dishwasher and some new outlets (and breaker box changes/additions). I did the cushion floor then, and the remaining walls.

Maybe before that we had the living room windows replaced with pair glass. The original tatami in one room was good enough, and it was some years before we changed for new ones there. I completely rebuilt a large porch off the kitchen when the kitchen was being redone.

We bought in '89, and we're still in the same house. So add 30+yrs to the age above.

We're on the third water heater (original plus two), and a/c units have changed over the years, heaters, too. Even the kitchen since the reform--we're on dishwasher number two, oven number two, burners/grill number three. So stuff does need replacing/refreshing, likely the same as would a new house that aged this long.

A key point is that it was cheap, we paid it off in I think 8yrs, and since then money that would've been going into a house was going to savings and other things. It has parking (we've always had two cars), and space enough for five with some arranging.

**

--> The gas you mention: Service in japan is propane (the 'bottles' that are delivered) vs city gas. --> Propane is known to be more expensive, tho I'm not sure exactly how much more. We have city gas, and use it for cooking, a gas dryer, and the kitchen heater--with propane we'd probably cut that last one and use something else, maybe the dryer, too.

One 'pro' for metal siding is that fire insurance is a little less, since it is rated low flammability. Our place has a traditional tile roof, known to last indefinitely, tho outside the genkan there is a metal roofed part (which we had redone once).

[Bubblegun]

We bought an older place, maybe 25-30yrs old when we bought it. Didn't do anything to it for a couple years, apart from new lighting, and I put down some carpet tiles in the living room at some point. Some years later we spent ¥2.5M on the kitchen, new counter (80cm high!), built in burners/grill/oven, down lights, dishwasher, cabinets, and one window enlarged and replaced. That came with some plumbing done, wiring for the stove and dishwasher and some new outlets (and breaker box changes/additions). I did the cushion floor then, and the remaining walls.

Maybe before that we had the living room windows replaced with pair glass. The original tatami in one room was good enough, and it was some years before we changed for new ones there. I completely rebuilt a large porch off the kitchen when the kitchen was being redone.

We bought in '89, and we're still in the same house. So add 30+yrs to the age above.

We're on the third water heater (original plus two), and a/c units have changed over the years, heaters, too. Even the kitchen since the reform--we're on dishwasher number two, oven number two, burners/grill number three. So stuff does need replacing/refreshing, likely the same as would a new house that aged this long.

A key point is that it was cheap, we paid it off in I think 8yrs, and since then money that would've been going into a house was going to savings and other things. It has parking (we've always had two cars), and space enough for five with some arranging.

**

--> The gas you mention: Service in japan is propane (the 'bottles' that are delivered) vs city gas. --> Propane is known to be more expensive, tho I'm not sure exactly how much more. We have city gas, and use it for cooking, a gas dryer, and the kitchen heater--with propane we'd probably cut that last one and use something else, maybe the dryer, too.

One 'pro' for metal siding is that fire insurance is a little less, since it is rated low flammability. Our place has a traditional tile roof, known to last indefinitely, tho outside the genkan there is a metal roofed part (which we had redone once).

Thank you for your reply. That's been useful.
Could I ask how much you paid? What kind of outside walls you have?
Also when you bought it, did you get any inspections? We are thinking of getting a structural inspection, to make sure there are no white ants, and since the property is about 40 years old maybe have a look at the foundations and look. Would this be too much?
It sounds as though we are wanting to do exactly the same as you.
We would like a new kitchen and to put in a bigger window, and a new bath. Then we'd probably do the the rest over the years to come. Depending on the roof keep it. One thing we don't want to do is, gut the whole place, and find its the same price as a new build.

[imaginatorium]

The gas thing is a scam. Town gas (都市ガス) is cheaper than bottled, but the bottled vendors arrange a nice "commission" for the people selling the house, to make sure they choose bottled. Our road has a gas main down it, but I suspect we are the only house using it (all the other houses are newer).

[Bubblegun]

The gas thing is a scam. Town gas (都市ガス) is cheaper than bottled, but the bottled vendors arrange a nice "commission" for the people selling the house, to make sure they choose bottled. Our road has a gas main down it, but I suspect we are the only house using it (all the other houses are newer).

Thanks for that. I wonder what other peoples experience is.And I wonder if its expensive to join the system.

Any advice anyone on making offers, and if you managed to negotiate a price?
We noticed how ( as seems the norm here) they have the selling price, then they all start to add on, Tax for A, Insurance for B, home loan insurance for C, and something else for D. It turned out to be around an extra million yen on top.

[captainspoke]

...
Could I ask how much you paid? What kind of outside walls you have?
Also when you bought it, did you get any inspections? We are thinking of getting a structural inspection, to make sure there are no white ants, and since the property is about 40 years old maybe have a look at the foundations and look. Would this be too much?
It sounds as though we are wanting to do exactly the same as you.
We would like a new kitchen and to put in a bigger window, and a new bath. Then we'd probably do the the rest over the years to come. Depending on the roof keep it. One thing we don't want to do is, gut the whole place, and find its the same price as a new build.

First, a correction on the year--we bought in '90 (move in was about May), not '89.

Second, tho where we are wasn't quite so strongly affected by it, that was bubble times, maybe just past peak of all that. We paid ¥23M, 10M down, and IIRC the loan was in the high 6% range (maybe even 7). It might be worth 15M today, and much of that value is due to a major road having been completed pretty close by. Which can be noisy, but now would be a selling point (convenience/accessibility). Eg, for a good 15yrs of my working life it cut my commute by about half.

No inspection, and I think that's still not a thing here. Just a good once-over with an agent who was critical of some things. Tho it won't always show settling, foundations are visible enough here that cracks, and esp gaps in any cracks, can be spotted. Our place does have/show some settling (foundation still appears fine), tho the doors and windows all work okay (one of noticeably 'off', but it's an interior sliding door, gap at the top when closed). I've suggested elsewhere that a decent level can reveal a lot (it would for our place!), the better ones are now digital, which would clearly show that one side of a room was a centimeter or few lower than the other, etc. If the floors are hard surface, an alternative is ball bearing--drop it and see if and how well it rolls across a room or down a hallway. Doors/windows when closed are another 'tell'.

Our place has metal siding except at the top, maybe 70cm of a different, painted surface. There's nothing inside the walls, just hollow space. Nothing in the ceilings. Same for floors, but I insulated the kitchen and living room floors long ago--decent enough crawl space to do it, but not something I'd want to take on now. During work on each room, I added 12mm plywood on top of the existing flooring, then carpet tiles or cushion floor on that. No insulation value, but added solidity, a driver drill to screw that into/onto the taruki running beneath the original flooring. Gets rid of squeaks and soft spots.

We got the place and I was working on it before youtube/google, '90 was almost before the internet, and there's so much out there now. A major evolution in home centers, too--simple availability of some things, material choices, tools, and so on...

[Bubblegun]

...
Could I ask how much you paid? What kind of outside walls you have?
Also when you bought it, did you get any inspections? We are thinking of getting a structural inspection, to make sure there are no white ants, and since the property is about 40 years old maybe have a look at the foundations and look. Would this be too much?
It sounds as though we are wanting to do exactly the same as you.
We would like a new kitchen and to put in a bigger window, and a new bath. Then we'd probably do the the rest over the years to come. Depending on the roof keep it. One thing we don't want to do is, gut the whole place, and find its the same price as a new build.

First, a correction on the year--we bought in '90 (move in was about May), not '89.

Second, tho where we are wasn't quite so strongly affected by it, that was bubble times, maybe just past peak of all that. We paid ¥23M, 10M down, and IIRC the loan was in the high 6% range (maybe even 7). It might be worth 15M today, and much of that value is due to a major road having been completed pretty close by. Which can be noisy, but now would be a selling point (convenience/accessibility). Eg, for a good 15yrs of my working life it cut my commute by about half.

No inspection, and I think that's still not a thing here. Just a good once-over with an agent who was critical of some things. Tho it won't always show settling, foundations are visible enough here that cracks, and esp gaps in any cracks, can be spotted. Our place does have/show some settling (foundation still appears fine), tho the doors and windows all work okay (one of noticeably 'off', but it's an interior sliding door, gap at the top when closed). I've suggested elsewhere that a decent level can reveal a lot (it would for our place!), the better ones are now digital, which would clearly show that one side of a room was a centimeter or few lower than the other, etc. If the floors are hard surface, an alternative is ball bearing--drop it and see if and how well it rolls across a room or down a hallway. Doors/windows when closed are another 'tell'.

Our place has metal siding except at the top, maybe 70cm of a different, painted surface. There's nothing inside the walls, just hollow space. Nothing in the ceilings. Same for floors, but I insulated the kitchen and living room floors long ago--decent enough crawl space to do it, but not something I'd want to take on now. During work on each room, I added 12mm plywood on top of the existing flooring, then carpet tiles or cushion floor on that. No insulation value, but added solidity, a driver drill to screw that into/onto the taruki running beneath the original flooring. Gets rid of squeaks and soft spots.

We got the place and I was working on it before youtube/google, '90 was almost before the internet, and there's so much out there now. A major evolution in home centers, too--simple availability of some things, material choices, tools, and so on...

That's helpful advice.
The real estate guy was saying we would be better to have any house inspected for termites/white ants, and I think the wife wants that too. I have no idea about them.

Have you found the metal sidings to be OK? Any renovations, repairs needed over the years?
Right now I'm looking on YouTube about the metal roof/sidings. Although I am weary of the channels with professionals pointing out all the great points of the product without really going over the other products as a comparison. So a visit to some company would be in order I expect.

I've never done any DIY myself so I expect to get someone to do the work. Some guys say its easy enough o lift tatami out and put down a new wooden floor.We'll see!

[Beaglehound]

The figures you are talking about for renovation seem realistic. When we were looking for property 4 years ago, the real estate guy said that we were looking at around 10million for new kitchen, bathroom, toilet, flooring, windows, decoration. He also said that inspection of the structure and roof was a good idea so it is doable. In the end we finally built new as it was really tricky to find an old place where we liked the location, size (there are only two of us and most places were just too big, we are in the sticks), had outside space with enough room for a couple of cars, and had a floor plan we could live with (changing this would add to the cost obviously).

We ended up paying around 18 million for the new build, so clearly renovation is a fair bit cheaper, though I guess the roof/walls would likely need expensive attention sooner than a new build.