Lump sum withdrawal: eligibility question

[kuma]

I wanted to ask this but didn't want to derail another thread...

Condition 4 of the eligibility criteria for the lump sum withdrawal is:

④ 年金（障害手当金を含む）を受ける権利を有したことがない.
④ You were never eligible to receive a pension (including disability allowance) . 
https://www.nenkin.go.jp/international/ ... iles/A.pdf

Any insight into whether this means: 
(a) if you have 10+ qualifying years, you are ineligible for the lump sum withdrawal, because you will be eligible to receive a pension in the future?
Or
(b), if you are below the qualification age to receive a pension (and are not eligible for a disability pension), then you remain eligible for the lump sum, irrespective of years of contribution, because by virtue of age (/lack of disability) you have never been eligible to receive a pension?

Note I'm trying to understand this for interest and am not considering a lump sum withdrawal myself.

[RetireJapan]

Once you hit 120 months and become eligible to receive a pension, you can no longer get a refund.
I presume it is also referring to people who start to receive (say, a disability) pension even if they haven't paid in 120 months.

[adamu]

Interesting. This appears to mean that getting PR would exclude most people from getting the withdrawal, as periods of residence abroad are also counted as years towards eligibility in that case. Could be worth noting for HSFP/spouses that are super keen to get PR in one year but might not end up living in Japan long-term.

[RetireJapan]

This appears to mean that getting PR would exclude most people from getting the withdrawal, as periods of residence abroad are also counted as years towards eligibility in that case.

You have to actively apply for this though, right? It is not granted automatically...

[kuma]

Thanks for the answers and the discussion.

The below link supports the answers to date:
https://www.nic-nagoya.or.jp/en/living- ... 01200.html

And whilst searching for information to back this up (nothing yet found directly from JPS), I saw Shigaku Kyosai has quite a bit of detail in English about periods which qualify for karakikan: https://www.shigakukyosai.jp/en/pension/pension06.html

Excellent info... but the title of the section ('Non-participating optional periods (Karakikan)' states 'optional', yet the text immediately below doesn't suggest any optional element: 'The following periods are not reflected in the calculation of pension benefits but included in the Pension-benefit Qualified Period.' Hey ho, primary sources, in Japanese, would be better! Again, just interested theoretically in how these things work.

[kuma]

This appears to mean that getting PR would exclude most people from getting the withdrawal, as periods of residence abroad are also counted as years towards eligibility in that case.

You have to actively apply for this though, right? It is not granted automatically...

Answers on a postcard to that one, please!

[Tkydon]

Also, whilst the Lump Sum refund maximum was recently raised from 3 years' contributions to 5 years' contributions, if you have made more than 5 years' but less than 10 years' contributions, you would lose the excess contributions over 5 years, and if you came back to Japan, would not be able to get those lost contributions back.

If you surrender your PR on leaving the country, and you have paid more than 6 months', but not more than 10 years' contributions, and you have not claimed other such payments as Disability Pension whilst in Japan, then you can claim upto 5 years' contributions as a refund, and Japan's responsibility to you will be fully discharged.