Exit tax overseas pension

[nagoyayagona]

Does anyone know if the Japanese exit tax (and related reporting requirement) applies to securities held in an overseas pension scheme?

[captainspoke]

Could you describe the overseas pension? ...some info about it?

Or is it one the offshore 'portable pension/savings' plans?

[nagoyayagona]

Sure. In my (and my wife's) case(s) we have onshore UK personal pensions which we paid into when we were living and working in the UK.

Does this need to be reported if it takes us over the 50 million JPY reporting requirement? I can't see any exclusion for securities held in an overseas pension, but it would make sense to me if there were such an exclusion, because otherwise Japan could be asking people to pay exit tax on overseas pension pots to which they may not even have access depending on age.

[RetireJapan]

I'm not sure, to be honest. I think it might depend on how much access/control you have.

For example, a state pension where you have built up eligibility but have no control or access to the contents is definitely not counted, either for the declaration of overseas assets nor for the exit tax (this is yet another reason why paying into the UK state pension on a voluntary basis is great).

On the other hand, an ISA where you have both control and access would probably count.

For a private pension, do you control how the contents are invested? Can you access the money? If not, then there is a chance it would not be counted. You could ask the tax office, but there's a good chance they won't know either

[nagoyayagona]

Thanks. Agreed re state pensions and ISAs.
Looks like I’m going to have to ask the tax office.

They’re always very helpful, but as you suggest, I figured this might not be one they’ve been asked before!
(And so I may get a different answer depending on whom I talk to.)

[nagoyayagona]

I'm not sure, to be honest. I think it might depend on how much access/control you have.

For example, a state pension where you have built up eligibility but have no control or access to the contents is definitely not counted, either for the declaration of overseas assets nor for the exit tax (this is yet another reason why paying into the UK state pension on a voluntary basis is great).

On the other hand, an ISA where you have both control and access would probably count.

For a private pension, do you control how the contents are invested? Can you access the money? If not, then there is a chance it would not be counted. You could ask the tax office, but there's a good chance they won't know either

Just coming back to this now as I finally got an answer from the tax office on this one. The very helpful guy took it away as "homework" and came up with a response a few weeks later. A UK pension (defined contributions in my case, but presumably the same may be said for defined benefits, if anyone has one of those these days) is NOT included in the annual declaration of overseas assets, and is NOT included in the assessment for Japan exit tax. I hope this is good news for someone.

[adamu]

A UK pension (defined contributions in my case, but presumably the same may be said for defined benefits, if anyone has one of those these days) is NOT included in the annual declaration of overseas assets, and is NOT included in the assessment for Japan exit tax. I hope this is good news for someone.

This sounds like really useful information to document on the wiki. Did he quote any sources, or just tell you the result of the investigation?

[Tkydon]

Are you overseas assets in excess of 100 Million Yen. If not, the Exit Tax does not apply.

[nagoyayagona]

A UK pension (defined contributions in my case, but presumably the same may be said for defined benefits, if anyone has one of those these days) is NOT included in the annual declaration of overseas assets, and is NOT included in the assessment for Japan exit tax. I hope this is good news for someone.

This sounds like really useful information to document on the wiki. Did he quote any sources, or just tell you the result of the investigation?

Sadly no sources! In this case just the bottom line.

[nagoyayagona]

Are you overseas assets in excess of 100 Million Yen. If not, the Exit Tax does not apply.

You’re right, but the rather burdensome annual reporting requirements kick in from half of that amount… presumably so they can watch you compounding!