FIRE getting popular in Japan

[mighty58]

Anyone else notice that FIRE is enjoying a bit of a moment here in Japan recently? Books on FIRE in Japanese, several blogs getting bigger, and even the mainstream media is starting to notice. It definitely seems to have touched a hidden "honne" sentiment that most everyone deep down knows: that the J-salaryman life more often than not sucks, and that time is finite.

However, I've also noticed that there seem to be a few somewhat unique traits/angles to the FIRE discussion here in Japan that seem to differ from what I know (which is the FIRE ethos as espoused by Mr. Money Mustache, the Mad Fientist and their ilk):
Specifically, I've noticed:　

• significantly more focus on living off dividend income, rather than the 4% rule. Many outright dismiss the 4% rule as unachievable in Japan
• more emphasis on "cut costs", less on "raise income". This I put down to salaryman mentality where your income is beyond your control.
• more of a focus on the fact that it's a millenial thing, particularly for singles. Rarely have I seen discussion of FIRE for those with families.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out here, hopefully not just another short-lived fad from the great gaikoku à la Cinnabon and Krispy Kreme. I personally would LOVE to see young Japanese corporate types take this to heart... would be quite the shock to their elders I imagine.

[RetireJapan]

I'm seeing this in my uni students. I teach a personal finance course, and about 10% of them came into it this year saying something like 'I want to save a lot of money and retire early'. That hasn't happened before

[Moneymatters]

Interesting topic. I had a look a while ago and found a plethora of FIRE blogs/youtubers that are living off minimal income.

3000万 セミリタイア　is the search term. Semi retire seems to be the palatable face of FIRE here and the two terms are frequently used together.

It's definately millenial focused around single folk that don't plan a family.
The drive seems to be to get out of the rat race at all costs even if it means surviving on a bit more than 10万 per month.
With the proviso that they can supplement that with part-time no-stress work as required. (The monthly budget plans would barely support my crippling alcholism.)

It reads like an alternative to going "full-freeta" in which case they'd be forced to work in that convenience store until an inheritance arrives.

As financial rewards tend to come later, people that might otherwise be on track for fire at 50+ are just starting to reap the rewards of all that hard work and loyalty. They are also probably weighed down by practical commitments making walking away from it an additional challenge. And they've probably made peace with their employment situation. Work life balance or lack thereof.

Those older folk who could FIRE possibly have more unwritten obligation type commitments to their own kids, parents or future grandkids meaning it might be considered a selfish decision.
I.e. They could retire now and have no spare cash to help their kids get started in life, no money to build a multi generation house, etc.
Where I live we are in the absolute minority that we didn't / don't get some parental assistance for house purchase or kids education fees, etc.

Ultimately, we are living in a country that people, on average, take approximately half of their vacation entitlement. So whilst the word is now in the lexicon I don't envisage a FIRE movement anytime soon.

Oh. There's also a bunch of stuff out there how to Semi retire (FIRE) with 5000万 from early 50s.

And never, I repeat. NEVER go "full freeta"..

[mighty58]

...

Very astute observations about the typical 50 year-old income-earner's "obligations". I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, I can easily see a FIRE-seeking 50 year old facing significant family opposition, and then just deciding to (sadly) give up and keep working as it's the less socially-mendokusai option.

[mighty58]

I'm seeing this in my uni students. I teach a personal finance course, and about 10% of them came into it this year saying something like 'I want to save a lot of money and retire early'. That hasn't happened before

Wow, a personal finance course eh? Would love to hear more about that ... maybe a good topic for a future blog post?

[RetireJapan]

Wow, a personal finance course eh? Would love to hear more about that ... maybe a good topic for a future blog post?

Pretty sure I have mentioned it a few times on the blog/site. Been doing it for four years now -it's great. It's supposed to be an English class for second year students, but it's basically personal finance in English.

Doing some guest lectures on the same topic for a university in Tokyo this week too.

I figure if just one or two of the students are paying attention, this will change lives

[pfdsa]

Wow, a personal finance course eh? Would love to hear more about that ... maybe a good topic for a future blog post?

Pretty sure I have mentioned it a few times on the blog/site. Been doing it for four years now -it's great. It's supposed to be an English class for second year students, but it's basically personal finance in English.

Doing some guest lectures on the same topic for a university in Tokyo this week too.

I figure if just one or two of the students are paying attention, this will change lives

Do you usually hold those guest lectures in Sendai or any university close to Miyagi Prefecture?
Would love to attend one

[jcc]

significantly more focus on living off dividend income, rather than the 4% rule. Many outright dismiss the 4% rule as unachievable in Japan

Sounds like the general fear of the stock market. I still get the strong impression that people here don't believe you can invest outside japan or something?

I mean, I too have a 20% cut in japanese stocks just for the lack of monetary risk, but the rest of my portfolio is international. Unless the yen inflated at the same pace as international stocks, we can get the same gains, so having such a belief certainly holds strong to the general japanese PTSD of the japanese bubble and crash

[RetireJapan]

Do you usually hold those guest lectures in Sendai or any university close to Miyagi Prefecture?
Would love to attend one

Sadly at the moment everything is online and there is no chance of outsiders having access to a university.

I'll be doing an online event for OTJ (a teaching group on Facebook) in a few weeks. Will post more info on the blog/email newsletter once I have the details.

Also a chance we'll be running online events or even a course this year. Stay tuned

[goodandbadjapan]

...

Very astute observations about the typical 50 year-old income-earner's "obligations". I hadn't thought of it that way, but yeah, I can easily see a FIRE-seeking 50 year old facing significant family opposition, and then just deciding to (sadly) give up and keep working as it's the less socially-mendokusai option.

I think there is a lot of thinking that you are somehow 'lazy' if you quit work early. For most Japanese I think it has simply never been an option, nor even a notional possibility! That said, I do think things are changing. I know one mid-forties guy who says he is seeking FIRE (through the '6% rule' as he put it) but he seems to be doing random stock picks for his investing. I don't know how well he's doing but he loves the FIRE idea. I know another guy who has just retired at 59 - not particularly early but noteworthy as he may well have sacrificed some kind of retirement bonus or whatever if he'd just stayed a year longer. Maybe not, but he was in a pretty good job in a big company and would have been earning a reasonable income. He has university-aged kids so I think his wife wanted him to work more, but he just decided that was it!

Two other people I know have just 'retired' at 60. They are going straight back to work next month in either a new position or a new company, one under strict orders from his wife to keep working.