New VS 20-year old house

[suntori]

We are currently considering getting a house, and would like to ask for advice about some of the options we are currently going through.

In our price range, we have the option of a few new wooden tateuris. Most of them have a tiny patch of land, and are in 99% of the cases extremely close to the neighbors. As these are wooden houses, I think that fire insurance, termite spray, and maintenance will be substantial expenses in the future. We were quoted 1,000,000 yen every 10 years for the house guarantee, and I am assuming it does not cover additional work that may be needed. But there are some nice houses, so we are keeping this as an option. Benefits include the 10 year house guarantee, Flat35 certificates, and the self-assurance that we will take good care of it.

In the same price range, we could make an offer on 20-25 year old concrete houses, that are usually larger (than the new tateuri) with a much larger patch of land, (almost double the land the new tateuris have). The neighbors are obviously also further apart, so more quiet environment for us. I am a bit concerned though if this is a risky option or not. With a new house we will have a 5-10 yer guarantee, that we do not get with a used house.

My questions thus relate to the riskiness of buying a 20 year old house. What type of problems might be there? Is it considered a very old house or still usable for 50 years more? Are there any recommendations for minimizing risk during a purchase?
Also, I am unclear of the flat35 applicability and 13-year tax discount.

Any knowledge/experience/thoughts or reference links on these aspects would be much appreciated.

We are in Okinawa by the way, with regular typhoons and high humidity.

[mighty58]

Each used house is different, so it's impossible to give a blanket answer, but I would recommend getting the used house inspected. That will give you an idea of what condition it's in, how much maintenance needs to be done, etc. The inspector works for you and reports only to you.

Couple things to keep in mind:
- you need to foot the bill, regardless of whether you buy the house or not (I paid 120,000 for my inspection)
- you need the current owners consent, but you don't need to share the detailed results unless you wish to
- there are things the inspector can't do (ie. he can't inspect what he can't see)

When I was buying, I had a similar new vs. used choice, and I commissioned an inspector who did a pretty comprehensive 8hr long inspection on a 20yr old wooden house that was twice the size of a similarly priced tateuri. He found various issues, none of which I considered deal breakers, but I played them up a bit in negotiations, and made an offer that factored those costs in, and I ended up buying the place.

I went with Sakura Jimusho, and was very happy with the service, but there are other companies as well.
https://www.sakurajimusyo.com/inspection/

[Beaglehound]

I think all builders are required by law to guarantee the house for ten years. This is basic in the sense that it covers only structural issues related to build quality but if companies are trying to charge extra for it, that seems dodgy.

[Ori]

Not all tateuri are made equal and not all old houses are equal as well.
20 yo Hebel house vs tateuri by some unknown developer - Hebel house wins
20 yo concrete house by some unknown developer vs tateuri by, idk, Daiwa house - tateuri wins

But then again, land size, location, school, floor plan etc. - all that is no less important than the building itself.

Unfortunately in the area where I'm looking, so far I found only one(!) old house that can win against tateuri. But the owner is asking way too much for it. Basically, the market for decent second-hand houses is so little, that there is practically nothing to choose from, when considering all other requirements.
Order-made houses are too expensive for us, so that leaves tateuri as the only viable option.

Another option, my friends went with, was to buy a really old wooden house and renovate and reinforce a hell out of it.

Maybe in Okinawa it's different, though...

[eyeswideshut]

We are in the process of buying a 20 y/o wooden place. It's a risk but the location is awesome and we have done comparisons on land value in the specific area and the land is worth enough to merit the price we are willing to pay. You have to also take into consideration the fact that 20+ y/o wood frame houses are not eligible for mortgage tax deductions which is significant. Like the previous poster, we used Sakura Jimusho to do an inspection and they clearly identified the shortcomings of the house and what will likely need immediate or near term repairs. They were really excellent and thoughtful in addressing our questions. With all this information factored in you can make a reasonable estimate as to the risk/benefit and decide whether the place merits the price asked or if you want to negotiate a deduction or pass for a less risky, newer house.

[captainspoke]

Our wooden house is now 30+yrs older than when we bought it, and I think it was 25 then. We've reformed some over the years, biggest was a complete kitchen re-do, but some other things, too. No plans to move.

We're not in an earthquake-prone area, and not in okinawa (I think typhoon-proofing is why there's more concrete there). Winter heating costs more than it would be in a new place, but then we haven't had to pay for a new place, either. We're missing a common feature in new builds--toilet on the second floor. That would be a luxury!

[suntori]

Thank you all for your replies, really insightful information.

Most of the tateuris we have seen are made/sold by the iida sangyo group (takuto homes, iida sangyo, arnest1) and they all come with Flats35S certificate (the intermediate level of S, eligible for 5 years of -0.25% interest rate). This, together with the 10 year guarantee is really an attractive point. But, we are mostly concerned about duration of wooden houses in typhoon-prone Okinawa. On the other hand, if it is so risky I guess developers would not be building them so frequently lately.

We will be definitely looking for an inspection of any second hand house. My preference would be < 10 years old but this may be way too expensive.

[yakushika]

It is worth thinking about a wooden house. I am in Kagoshima, one of the islands, so get typhoons and humidity and a lot of rain. We bought 10 years ago a 20 year old wooden frame place, so it is now 30 years old. We've had the white ant treatment (about ¥400,000 if I remember correctly), plus had the exterior painted, veranda stained, roof resealed and the guttering redone. I'm told by the people who did this work that this would all need redoing every 10 years or so. I think cost of all this was around ¥1.5million, so spread over 10 years it seems reasonable. Our original survey, and a subsequent check by a builder friend, show no problems at all with the building now.
When I look at this building and the quality of the construction and the wood used in the frame, and the work we have had done, it seems a high standard, and it is built for the local climate. You'd need to reckon on some maintenance costs and they might well be higher than for a new build or concrete frame building, so that is a factor in the purchase price, but I am really glad we bought this place and am confident that it will be a good choice for a few years yet.

[Roger Van Zant]

I bought a 20 year-old wooden house in 2017. It sits on an acre of land, which was a big factor in wanting to buy the house. My nearest neighbor is over 300 meters away. Total of four houses within a kilometer of me. My company is a 30 minute drive away down the mountain.
I also didn't want to get suckered into buying one of those brand-new, pre-fab houses which people seem to love here, for 40 million yen or more!

Since the wooden posts and beams are all exposed with my house, it's really important to regularly check for shakes (cracks in the wood) and fill them with filler. I also stain all the wood once every two/three years. Also necessary to caulk as and when necessary.

I had the house sprayed for termites; that cost 135,000 yen. No sign of any termites (house sits on a concrete pad), but good for peace of mind. Also comes with a five-year warranty. I would never buy a house that sits on just dirt, like a lot of older Japanese houses.

I found one area of rotted wood which the previous owners had hidden pretty well. I had to replace that section. Cost about 150,000 for two carpenters to do it over three days. They did a great job.

The kitchen and bathroom both need a sprucing up, but they are perfectly usable as they are. I will get around to them when I save up the money.

The house has Japan-level insulation (i.e. bullshit), so it can get very cold in the winter. I have a large wood stove, but also a powerful kerosene heater. I live alone, so I don't have to keep the house heated all day when I am at work. If I won the lottery, I would have all the windows replaced with double-glazing....

I replaced my kerosene tank which heats the hot water. That cost 12,000 yen.

In a few years, I will probably need a new boiler; I was quoted about 350,000 ~ 400,000 yen for that.

So, if you don't mind being attentive, and keeping on top of maintenance, then looking at a second-hand house is good. There are plenty of deals to be had. My house was on the market for 16.8 million, but I haggled down to 13.5 million. A big reason I decided to buy, despite being single and childless, was thinking ahead to the future....I will only have a small pension (UK pension plus Japanese pension) in retirement, so I want my house paid off in full several years before retirement. Since I bought my house for a cheap price, I was able to get a 20-year mortgage, as opposed to the usual 35 years. Even a small pension goes a lot further when you're not forking out 70,000 yen a month in rent or mortgage payments. I plan to have the house paid off before I turn 58.

It seems to me, a big reason many Japanese houses fall to shit in 20 years is because the average Japanese person carries out zero maintenance....ever! They will say "Oh, I can't do that. It's only for professionals". But these days, with YouTube tutorials, commonsense, and a bit of passion, the average person can easily do painting, wallpapering, switching out a kerosene tank, sealing a roof etc....

The house survived the huge Kumamoto earthquakes back in 2016 with just some minor damage.
I couldn't get the tax breaks unless I had some expensive work done to bring the house up to modern earthquake standards. That would have cost over 1 million yen. The house was built in 1997, so after the Kobe earthquake, which brought in some new building codes, I believe.

I found my property through the Internet.

If you have any questions, I'm happy to help.

[TJKansai]

We built our multi-family home 19 years ago, and it has held up pretty well. We used a small komuten and had them match many of the specs of a Selco (Canadian style) home we liked.

We had storage sheds put in later, and then a carport.

The only big renovation projects have been having it repainted and recaulked at 15yrs. New roof at 18yrs.

Gas hot water heater repaired after 10 years, then replaced 6yr later (about 250,000).

For what it's worth, we paid 40,000,000 for 300sqm of living space (land was in the family), which is probably at the lower end of the scale. Sweden home looked great, but was around 60,000,000.

The mortgage was 30yr, with first 10yr at 2.2%, then it dropped to around 1.6%. Decided to pay it off early, not sure if that is brilliant or stupid, but at least it is one less thing to think about.