nisa lumpsum or tsumitate nisa

[ivanpgs]

Even starting off with Tsumitate NISA you can change your plan to NISA, then rollover to New NISA and then get back to Tsumitate NISA (that has been recently extended 5 years to 2042 from the previous 2037, although the maximum you can get free tax is 20 years).

This guy started with Tsumitate NISA in 2019 (with SBI), then applied for a transfer to NISA plan in 2021 (he did it in advance applying in October so that he can start it in 2021). The whole plan to max out everything is as follows:



And the whole interesting article is here: https://nukunukusas.com/tsumitatenisa-to-nisa.

And the calculations with all of these plans mixed together go from the 8M Yens allowed during 20 years of Tsumitate NISA to 11.64M. Not a bad deal! Still I am wondering how all of these different NISA plans would work when it comes to tax free reporting (I guess everything would be done by the NISA provider anyway).



As for me, I also started the same way with Tsumitate NISA but in 2018 with SBI, then transfer to Rakuten in 2020 (unfortunately the first 2 years of 400K free tax were lost, as you the former provider will sell off all of it before the account is transferred to the new provider...). So here I am, in my second year of Tsumitate NISA with Rakuten (2020 and 2021), but the fourth of my 20 free tax years in Tsumitate NISA. I need to come up with a plan like the one on the blog.

I should have tried to investigate a bit more in advance but the language barrier did not let me get deeper on the plan. Well, it's never too late!

Hmmm,

The more I read the more confused I get. It seems that even the guy that wrote the article above which plan is doing the following:

Tsumitate NISA ---(transfer, 区分変更)---> Regular NISA ---(rollover, ロールオーバー)---> New NISA ---(transfer, 区分変更)---> Tsumitate NISA (resuming the original Tsumitate NISA)

He does not seem to be 100% sure that he will be able to resume on the first original Tsumitate NISA.

In the last line he said that if he might not be able to transfer / rollover from the NEW NISA back to the Tsumitate (さらには、新NISAからつみたてNISAへロールオーバーできる予定です。しかし、ロールオーバー先の勘定口座で取り扱いの無い銘柄だとロールオーバーできません。).

I read other article (below) in which the writer warns about the same thing:

Whole article: https://fpsdn.net/fp/rnohara/column/1041

2. 再投資型投資信託の再投資分の取扱いに注意！

区分変更（一般NISA→つみたてNISA、つみたてNISA→一般NISA）すると、
再投資型投資信託の再投資分は、従来は非課税枠内では可能であったNISA口座での再投資ではなく、
課税口座（一般口座か特定口座）にて再投資されますのでご注意ください。

Which again I might misunderstand, but it seems to me that if you switch from NISA to Tsumitate NISA or viceversa, then your new investments for the original NISA account will be done on a non free-tax account instead of resuming on where you left before transferring to the other NISA type. While this might be no problem if you do the following:

Regular NISA ---(rollover, ロールオーバー)---> New NISA ---(transfer, 区分変更)---> Tsumitate NISA

It might be a problem if you try to do like this (which is my case):

Tsumitate NISA ---(transfer, 区分変更)---> Regular NISA ---(rollover, ロールオーバー)---> New NISA ---(transfer, 区分変更)---> Tsumitate NISA

Which is the same as the pic I shared below:



But what interpreted after reading this "fpsdn.net" article is that the original Tsumitate NISA investments might be transferred to a non free-tax account, not being able to resume on those investments after going through the Regular NISA ---(rollover, ロールオーバー)---> New NISA steps.

This is getting complex, so I might continue with my current approach of maxing out my Tsumitate NISA and, perhaps starting to use a Tokutei account to increase the amount of investments.

Any thoughts?

[Yossarian]

This is getting complex, so I might continue with my current approach of maxing out my Tsumitate NISA and, perhaps starting to use a Tokutei account to increase the amount of investments.

Any thoughts?

Certainly seems the easiest plan and a couple of previous posts showed little difference between 1.2 mil in NISA and 400k in tsumitate + 800k in tokutei. Might be the way.

[Bubblegun]

I’ve thought about this too. Wether to drip money in or do a lump sum.
Are there any caveats to the lumps sum calculation? Eg, length of time?
For example if put in in a lump sum once a year, and I end up buying at the top of the market and then there is a dip then the percentage wouldn’t always be great?
We
Whereas dropping money in would mean it’s buying things when things are going well, (sadly not the large lump sum amount) but when things become cheaper our money is going further as it gets more with less money, ?
We’ve just started our NISA Application for everyone.
Looks like I’ve found my answer.
https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.this ... p-dum.html

[Kanto]

I’ve thought about this too. Wether to drip money in or do a lump sum.
Are there any caveats to the lumps sum calculation? Eg, length of time?
For example if put in in a lump sum once a year, and I end up buying at the top of the market and then there is a dip then the percentage wouldn’t always be great?
We
Whereas dropping money in would mean it’s buying things when things are going well, (sadly not the large lump sum amount) but when things become cheaper our money is going further as it gets more with less money, ?
We’ve just started our NISA Application for everyone.
Looks like I’ve found my answer.
https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/www.this ... p-dum.html

Vanguard has a paper on lump-sum vs DCA (Dollar-cost averaging). Lump-summing asap produces the most consistent results.
http://www.smartretirement.com.au/wp- ... raging.pdf

Do not attempt to time the market.

[bryanc]

Hmmm this is quite reassuring actually. This is what my wife and I are doing currently

- 2 x Tsumitates (Front-loaded)
- 1x Junior Nisa
- 2 X ideCo (68,000+12,000)
- Anything over the our emergency fund in our taxable.

With Tsumitate+Rakuten Credit Card you can also earn those free points. About 8man over the course of a Tsumutate, with a maximum of 12man with Tusmitate+taxable over 20 years. Which is not nothing! (Which also compounds because you can use those points to purchases trusts through Rakuten.

Which would be around 30man at 8% interest over 20 years.

Reassuring for me too. Spent the last couple of years building up the emergency fund, tsumitate and iDeco. Now the emergency fund is where we want it there's about 100k a month going in to the taxable. Nice to know I'm on the right path.

some questions on this-you can front load the tsumitate?(pay year amount in lump sum ahead of time?)
out of interest what are you investing the taxable 100k in??

[Zanuhesu]

some questions on this-you can front load the tsumitate?(pay year amount in lump sum ahead of time?)
out of interest what are you investing the taxable 100k in??

You can't entirely, but you can practically frontload almost the entire amount through the bonus system.
Say you only pay into one fund, and the minimum payment is 100 yen / month. Set the monthly payment to the minimum, and then put a bonus payment of 398,800 (400k - (100*12)). This way you can pay all but 1100 yen of your full amount in January.

[Kanto]

some questions on this-you can front load the tsumitate?(pay year amount in lump sum ahead of time?)
out of interest what are you investing the taxable 100k in??

You can't entirely, but you can practically frontload almost the entire amount through the bonus system.
Say you only pay into one fund, and the minimum payment is 100 yen / month. Set the monthly payment to the minimum, and then put a bonus payment of 398,800 (400k - (100*12)). This way you can pay all but 1100 yen of your full amount in January.

This is correct! However, not all brokers have the BONUS system. I believe Rakuten and SBI do, and probably MONEX.

As far as the funds we choose for our NISA and Taxable accounts.,,,

I choose Emaxis Slim All-country

My wife choose Emaxis Slim Advanced-country (She assumed her DC had lots of Japanese exposure and did not want to invest in China).

Also around 8% in Total Bond market and Emaxis Advanced government bonds. (Down 1000 yen altogether, gotta love the bond market currently right? )

[TJKansai]

some questions on this-you can front load the tsumitate?(pay year amount in lump sum ahead of time?)
out of interest what are you investing the taxable 100k in??

You can't entirely, but you can practically frontload almost the entire amount through the bonus system.
Say you only pay into one fund, and the minimum payment is 100 yen / month. Set the monthly payment to the minimum, and then put a bonus payment of 398,800 (400k - (100*12)). This way you can pay all but 1100 yen of your full amount in January.

This was great advice. I started my son's (age 21) Tsumitate and thought the month by month was a waste of a year's allowance. Now I got 99% in all at once.

Hopefully, he starts adding to it himself once he gets a full-time job.