It’s the final countdown
Well, we got our final quote from Ichijo Komuten.
(you can see the previous installments of our house-building adventure here: part 1, part 2, part 3, and part 4)
We went into their new showroom in Sendai and had another long-winded presentation about their technology (my mother-in-law came with us, which made everything take three times as long).
Then we sat down and went over the terms and conditions, and the quote.
The final quote was for 46 million yen. It’s amazing how seriously considering a number like that can change your perspective.
The first thing I realized is that I am not ready to commit to living with my in-laws for the rest of their lives. They are good people, but they drive me nuts already, and that’s without being around them 24-7 π
So it is now clear to me that we need to keep our current manshon alongside whatever new arrangements we make.
That means that anything we do has to be drastically cheaper than the current plan, as we will still be paying for our current flat alongside the new mortgage.
On the other hand, the house no longer needs to be big enough for all four of us to live comfortably. Rather, it needs to be nice enough for us to consider living there in the future, and big enough for my wife and I to stay over when necessary (but we can leave all our stuff at home).
We also probably don’t need a lot of optional things, like solar panels or wooden decks, etc. There is a big argument to be made for buying them with the bank’s money while we can, but another one to reduce our loan and maybe buy them later when they are cheaperΒ and we have more cash…
Just going through the quote yesterday makes me think we can chop about 10 million off the final cost without making any drastic sacrifices. This means we’d need to find some mixture of cash and mortgage to pay for about 20 million of the cost (my parents-in-law would cover the rest). Probably not impossible.
Another option is to get someone to renovate the existing structure. We’re going to talk to a local company about that today and see how much that would cost.
For the record, I think Ichijo might be the best option if we were definitely going to build a house from scratch. If it were just my wife and I, and we were building our dream house with no compromises, I think I would go with them. The build quality/price is really convincing.
However in our current situation, which is full of compromises, we’re going to have to be more pragmatic. Stay tuned for more developments. I’m sure you’re on the edge of your seat π
What do you think? What should I do with this situation? How much is a full-on renovation of the house going to cost?
Wow. That is one expensive quote. You must be looking at buying a huge house. I think we paid about half of that (and we owned the land already). I thought you owned the land you would be building on, but maybe I am confused. We have a traditional Japanese house filled with wood beams, flooring and some tatami rooms. It isn’t that big because the lot is small, but I would consider it expensive per cubic foot of space. In other words, not cheap construction. So I kind of got sticker shock seeing the quote you are looking at.
Probably not as badly as I did!
We do own the land (well, my in-laws do) but we need to clear it.
As I wrote, I don’t think we’ll be implementing this option as is π
One thing I’d very, very strongly recommend is a gas clothes dryer, esp. since you’re up north a little.
It’s one of our most-used appliances. (We’re on city gas and also use ir for cooking and, winter, heating in our kitchen.)
Electric dryers suck. And from what I read those combined washer-dryer units are also about the same.
Also, we have an extra room that acts as a dry room–it has a dehumidifier that runs a lot (almost 24/7 in the summer). Stuff that doesn’t go thru the drier goes there–delicates, or things that might shrink, swimwear, etc. And other humidity-sensitive stuff stays there, too. Camera equipment, tools (that I don’t want to rust), and so on.
So, plan a real clothes dryer into your plans, and maybe a dry room where you can safely store some things, too.
Okay, maybe your overall design does that already…?
Thanks, CS
I think we’re going to go in a different direction, but I’ll add it to my ‘build a house’ file for future use π
My father-in-law suggested sometime ago that I rebuild his house and for my wife and Ito live with my parents-in-law. However, I would prefer to buy and build on a different plot, somewhere neutral. The parents-in-law would contribute to a share of a 2 generation house and live with us. As it would be neutral ground it would be much less likely that I would have to live by my father-in-law’s rules. I feel that a new house on neutral ground would allow for a greater likelihood of equality in the relationship. More chance of maintaining my sanity.
That is a great solution. If you can sell the original house/plot it might even be a win/win π
I quite like where my in-laws have their place now, so that’s not as much of a problem, but I really get your point about maintaining sanity!
His house stands in a much sought after area, as it is near popular schools. It would sell fast. However, aged in their mid 90’s I think the upheaval would be too much for them. Thinking cap back on.
Yeah, I also want to minimize disruption, particularly for my father-in-law. He’s much more attached to his home than my MIL is.
Hope you find a good solution!
Living here almost 3 decades, not married and no kids – I would never buy in Japan now as the laws seem to change a lot lately and not for the better. I have a friend who bought last year after 20+ years and he said the plot was 5εδΈ and 2 story house from scratch was 2εδΈοΌγI know paying rent sucks but with changes in life and those golden days over where the streets were paved with gold, I can’t see buying. I will keep fighting with the owner when issues arise as I know tenants have the upper hand. Japan seems less appealing now as it did in the 80s and 90s. Want to be free to move when I please. My 2 cents.
Hi Mattej
I largely agree π
We bought a very cheap manshon last year (9 million) and I would be happy to stay here indefinitely, but my wife wants to live with her parents as they get older and more frail.
I am willing to compromise on buying/paying to renovate their house as it is important to her. It’s an awful investment but sometimes it is worth paying for things that matter.
It’s all relative of course and we got lucky and was given land by my wife’s parents to build on but even so, that quote they gave you is nearly double what we paid and we built from scratch too.
Mattej, Regarding buying plot & house build, you mention recent adverse legislative change. Can you enlarge on your comment? Any law to beware of?
I think that your plan to hold off for now is prudent. 46M seems like an awful lot more than required for the house you want.
In my situation, my wife wouldn’t want her mother living with us…
One more thing–have you looked at any reviews of Ichijo Komuten? I just googled “δΈζ‘ε·₯εεΊγε£γ³γ”. Most of the reviews on the sites at the top of the results page were not good (average of about 2 stars out of 5). I didn’t just see a few, there must have been over a hundred reviews on multiple sites, and one long negative review from 2015 (https://www.smarthouse2.com/?p=10203).
Hi Tedley
Thanks! I haven’t seen all that many negative reviews from people who ended up buying from Ichijo (did a few brief searches).
Basically they seem to have a good reputation for build quality, price (for the spec), and transparency, and a bad reputation for customer service, design, and flexibility.
House nerds tend to like them. Interestingly, I had read that review you linked to. It’s actually a positive one (the title is basically clickbait) and goes through common criticisms of Ichijo and why they are incorrect.
Basically my impression of Ichijo is that if you want the build quality they are selling and don’t mind buying it in the limited shape and design they impose, they are pretty much the only option other than getting a specialized architect to build for you (probably at a higher price).
My two cents is that you should get off this train while you still have a chance π Undertaking a construction (or renovation) project anywhere is a challenge, let alone as a foreigner in Japan where most of us have limited community connections and very little social capital. Risk of getting fleeced is simply too high. If you absolutely have to, do a limited renovation project to make sure your parents-in-law have an acceptably comfortable standard of living. Walk away from the rest and sleep better knowing that you havenβt ploughed a half a million bucks into a wood frame house that will be worth (financially) literally nothing the moment they hand over the keys. I submit the following quote from H.D. Thoreau: βA man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.β
Thanks, Alex
That’s certainly two full barrels from the contrarian end of the spectrum π
I’m inclined to agree with you this time.
However, I think there could be a case for paying less for a higher standard of living (without rehashing the ‘throwing money away on rent’ argument) while being conscious of the limited flexibility that comes with a mortgage on a house with limited take value…
Have a meeting with a renovation company later in the month, I’ll keep you posted!
I know you’ve done a lot of research, but looking at energy efficiency and quality home build, have you seen https://www.yamatojk.co.jp ?
Thanks! I hadn’t seen them. Look quite promising.
Unfortunately don’t seem to have any presence in Tohoku. I’ll take a look at the website π
My wife and I are going to look at some model houses and talk with them tomorrow actually.
The person we spoke with on the phone used to make houses for the American military in Okinawa, so he has a lot of experience with US building standards. Looks promising.
Sounds very promising. Let me know how you get on!
It’s not so expensive if you have a million dollars in the bank. Like me though, you probably don’t. Also, I would not want to live with my in laws. Lots of options, so take your time making mistakes until you find what it is you are looking for.
Absolutely! It was really useful to go through the process though, ’cause we learned a lot and the moment I saw the final quote I became aware of my true feelings…
It’s kind of like when you flip a coin and then decide to do what you want anyway π
[quote]What do you think? What should I do with this situation?[/quote]
So. you’ve had all this input, what are your going to do?
I am going to… think about it some more π
We’re getting a renovation company to look at the house later in the month. Will post about how that goes.
Right now I don’t think we’ll be building a house. It’s not them (I still like the product) it’s us. Well, me. Too big a step right now.
I too think that quote is high. Have you looked at Selco Home? That’s who made our house, and we are quite happy with the construction. It was quite a bit cheaper than yours even including the land although we bought the house large enough to share with my mother-in-law.
They do Canadian-style homes so good insulation and windows.
Thanks Perogyo
After a lot of research, I think it is a reasonable quote for the quality π
Due to other factors we’re going to look at renovating instead though, which should cost a lot less!
46 million seems a bit steep considering a myriad of factors. At least it is not even close to the amount I would consider spending a country prone to natural disasters.
There is a local gaijin around these parts who is probably at least worth talking to. He has a 2nd stage architects license and is VERY knowledgeable about materials and the state of the Japanese construction business (which is generally not very good)
his name is Derek Buston
Houses are not built to last in Japan, but its a very poor investment when the house doesn’t last as long as the loan on the land. His prices are high but his buildings are designed to last for at least the 35 year length of the loan.
Here is his website. Tell him Paul sent you π
http://www.westcoastdesign.co.jp
Thanks Paul! We’re looking at going in a different direction, but I still like Ichijo and would seriously consider them if we end up building in the future π
I see he also does renovations though, so will drop him a line. Thanks!
Houses here are built to last if you spend the money. If you take a cookie-cutter house from the catalog for 15M JPY, you end up with compromises and your place is ready to be demolished after 30 years.
Contract an architect that knows how to design a passive house and has contacts with a crew that can build one, walls from ICF and pay about 50M for 160m2, you get a house that’ll last a few generations with proper maintenance.
Most Japanese just skimp on the quality to save cost, because they seem to be culturally aligned to think that nobody would use the old house anymore and it needs to be demolished regardless after they pass away. You don’t need to think that way.
46 million seems like a lot of money! We built an imported house (45 tsubo with about 8 tsubo of “εΉγζγ” open space and an attached, enclosed garage) for about 29 million. We also got two layers of insulation (both inner and outer), central heating and air, complete freedom over the floor plan and design, and insulation certification by the Canadian government. Can’t imagine having paid 46 million.
Sounds great! Which company did you go with?
(to be fair to Ichijo, I think the quote for the house only was only about 28 million, then it’s extras and clearing the land, etc.)
Lots of details here! http://lundman.net/wiki/index.php/Tokyo_house
Thanks, CS! That looks really interesting π
Look forward to reading it when I get back.